Who really knows Carter and Edelbrock carbs on here?

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

I'm trying to get my Carter carbs to work with VP Q16 and came up with this reply.
From what I hear you get them rich enough no matter what, even if you remove the metering jets all together.
Can anyone explain this reply.
Does it make any sense and if so can you explain where to find these parts.

You need to pull the metering clusters out and check the sizes of the main well air bleeds, particularly on the secondary.


The secondary main well tubes may have only a .073” hole in the bottom of the well tube. The fuel goes through the inside of the tube to get to the booster discharge nozzle. The fuel must pass through the .073” hole to get to the nozzle. Some of them have that .073” pinch and a .073” air bleed. It doesn’t matter what size jet or if you leave the jet out, the .073” pinch in the bottom of the tube is the jet and the huge air bleed seals the deal, unless you modify that situation the carb will not richen up enough even for pump gas.

On the primary side, the brass tubes standing up from the cluster are the main air bleed. They should not be larger than .031”, .028” preferred.

Check to see if the idle tubes are the same size.

- - - Updated - - -

This is on a dual quad indy inline crossram

 

[RustyRatRod]

rumblefish is pretty dang sharp with them. I know he's workin his *** off lately so you might try sendin him a PM.

 

[67 coronet]

i could understand removing the metering rods,but removing the jets sounds kinda weird to me.

 

[coloradodave]

Doesn't make sense. Where did that info on the secondary main well come from? If that was the situation, why would they bother making jets beyond .073"? When in doubt, get the info direct from the horse's mouth; in this case, Edelbrock Tech.

 

[daredevil]

Try asking Damon.

 

[383man]

Never heard anyone say that about them. We use two Eddy 800 carbs on my brothers 499 but its nowhere near as much eng as you have there. His has run 10.20's at 3600 lbs and we have no trouble tuning them rich enough. Seems alot of guys run the Indy crossram like that with the Eddy carbs. I believe Kevn who run the Bounty Hunter Bob Banning white 64 Dodge runs that intake as I think he runs Eddy carbs. I believe he has run 9.80's with a 500 plus eng and I dont think he uses Holleys as I believe he uses Eddy carbs. Dont think I have seen anyone use Holleys on that intake ?? Ron

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Vic runs Holley's on his race cars.

 

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

I'm talking about running VP Q16 which when you run this oxygenated fuel you have to go up 6 jet sizes.
Edelbrock and carter metering jets only go up to ..119 in size.
And that's where i'm at now running VP C14. .119 jets square.
So if I try and run the Q16 im going to lean this motor out and detonate it which isn't an option.

 

[383man]

Yea I have not ever fooled with the VP Q16. Was not considering that but should have. How is that ratio of that fuel compared to alcohol ?? Course I still run this crap pump gas and we run 112 race fuel in my brothers 64. I am not up to par with the VP Q16. I know Carter and Eddy carbs well but not when using that fuel. Is that your only car using that fuel Chris ? I am just curious what you use in your Hemi cars ? Course I guess you use Holleys on the Hemi cars ? Ron

 

[coloradodave]

FYI: From VP's site: (You've probably already seen this)...


"Power – Q16 has 10% oxygen content by weight, requiring a 4-6% increase in fuel flow, which contributes to making 3-5% more power than competitors’ 116 octane fuels. With its rapid vaporization rate, Q16 has superior burning speed and makes more pressure in the cylinders, both of which also make more power. Q16 still has relatively low vapor pressure, unusual in a fuel with an oxygen content and vaporization rate this high."
I still would check with Edelbrock's tech and get the real info on the main well size just to see if it's a restriction or not. If not, and if necessary, jets can be drilled...

 

[Budnicks]

try one of these, I personally like Holley's much better...

 

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

try one of these, I personally like Holley's much better...

I HAVE A PAIR OF THEM TOO.no difference in fuel delivery. just more tuneable with adjustable secondaries.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It's almost beginnin to sound like the Carter/Eddy style carbs just ain't made for that kinda fuel.

 

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

It's almost beginnin to sound like the Carter/Eddy style carbs just ain't made for that kinda fuel.

not true, Jakes automotive runs it in the same motor as mine but hes at 3000 -3500 feet.Im at sealevel and I go too freaking lean on the secondaries which in turn caused detonation.
Theres gotta be someone who knows how to make this modification.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Well let me pose this question. Is there room to drill the jets larger?

 

[62MAX]

Well let me pose this question. Is there room to drill the jets larger?

Yes there is,you could probably almost double the size !!!

 

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

Carter guys, reread this and let me know if this makes sense?

You need to pull the metering clusters out and check the sizes of the main well air bleeds, particularly on the secondary.


The secondary main well tubes may have only a .073” hole in the bottom of the well tube. The fuel goes through the inside of the tube to get to the booster discharge nozzle. The fuel must pass through the .073” hole to get to the nozzle. Some of them have that .073” pinch and a .073” air bleed. It doesn’t matter what size jet or if you leave the jet out, the .073” pinch in the bottom of the tube is the jet and the huge air bleed seals the deal, unless you modify that situation the carb will not richen up enough even for pump gas.

On the primary side, the brass tubes standing up from the cluster are the main air bleed. They should not be larger than .031”, .028” preferred.

Check to see if the idle tubes are the same size.

 

[coloradodave]

Reread post #4.

 

[fugly]

First off pull the secondary boosters and measure the ID, which should be about .210-.216.....so the aforementioned is BS on the secondary side....on the primaries it is necked down, however there are two holes just Obote the base which also draw fuel. All that said, you have to figure the area of the jet not the diameter to figure this out using the formula PI r squared....as an example if you are using 119 jets on all four corners which I will come back to, your secondary area per jet is .011 inches and 10% more would be .0121...back figuring from there yields a required jet size of .124' which is very doable.....on the primary side you have to subtract the area of the metering rod which if you are using a XX47 rod leaves you with a total area of .00926 X1.1 (10% more) Means a required area of .0101 which would be had by using a XX34 rod which you might have to turn down from something else.....totally possible with some work.....now back to your combo....everything I have seen shows you running 2 sizes bigger on average then most....this leads me to believe you have other issues like fuel delivery, hood scoop too close to the carb, plenum area too big for engine or not enough timing....I suggest working with your combo some, as you should not need anything bigger than 116 jets even in cool air...

 

[RustyRatRod]

Pies are round, not square.