Who's using an electric water pump on their BB?

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  1. 64sleeper

    64sleeper FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    I posted in the 62-65 forum first, now I'm coming here because I figured I'd have better luck because racers running electric water pumps. Now that things are moving along with the motor (400/512), I'm starting to get ideas on the cooling system. It's going to be street/strip 64 polara, pump gas 9.5-10:1, block half filled, and trick flow 240s. I want to run an electric fan/water pump. I'm looking for suggestions on which radiator, water pump, and fan(s) I should go with? Is the 22 inch style for the early cars enough, or should I go with a later 26 inch style and make my own mounts? I want zero cooling issues at anytime!! Any pics and info is much appreciated.
     
  2. LemonWedge

    LemonWedge Well-Known Member

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    I just installed an electric pump this off season, so I can’t really offer much feedback on how it works just yet. However, Im of the understanding that if the car sees extended street time, it may not keep up with a mechanical pump in extended “heat-soak” conditions (especially with your filled block). I went this route because My car is fairly dedicated to bracket duty these days.
    I went with the Proform / Mopar performance pump, and added a Deralle electric fan & shroud at the same time.
    Good luck with your build! Keep us updated
     
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    • 64sleeper

      64sleeper FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      Ok thanks. That's why I'm going with an electric too, so I can regulate it at the track for bracket duty. But I also want to drive it on the street. I doubt I'll be driving it on 100 degree days, but if I do I don't want any issues.
       
    • ksurfer2

      ksurfer2 Well-Known Member

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      I am following this one closely because I am in the same boat....looking to put together a street/strip car and considering and electric water pump, but want to be able to do some street driving as well without issues.
       
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      • Budnicks

        Budnicks You Can Just Thank Me Later FBBO Gold Member

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        I have a Pro Comp 35gph, more than enough flow
        I also took out the thermostat & put/made a washer with a 5/8"-3/4" hole
        to slow down/restrict the flow some. so it stays in the rad. longer
        seems to work great

        Pro-Comp Electric BB Mopar Water Pump 35gpm pro-66219 $223.97.jpg
        fits right in the Alum. MP water-pump hosing
        (I'd think it'd work in an OE cast iron housing too, just heavier)


        & 2 electric fans 1) 16" 3000+cfm puller & 1)13" 2900+cfm pusher
        68 RR Perma-Cool Electric fan 16in. alum. 2950cfm prm-19115 $157.31 Summit.jpg 16" & 13" 68 RR Perma-Cool Electric fan 13 in. alum. in 3000cfm prm-19113 $153.05 Summit.jpg
        16" fan is about 3-1/4" deep after mounted to the radiator
        13" pusher fan just for if it starts to run warmer/hotter than I like
        both are Perma-Cool alum. blade reversible fans

        sorry for the shitty photos,
        this looking down in from the pass. side belt routing under the wp etc.
        75 amp alt. helps with all the extra electronics
        68 RR #35 479ci electric water pump rad alt view ps.JPG

        from drivers side PS pump belt, had to use an idler pulley
        to clear the wp with the serpentine belt
        68 RR #37 Power Steering Pump for Unisteer rack & pinion serpintine belt ds.JPG


        a shroud on the inside for the 16"
        it's a tight fit with my set up
        on an aluminum 22" down-flow Mancini Racing larger tube/core radiator
        & IIRC a 16# cap runs in 100* Cailf. heat no problems

        see how thick the MRE Alum. rad is
        & sort of see the fuse block & bank of relays for the electronics
        on the inner fender
        68 RR #25 479ci-6bbl Front of engine bay ds.JPG

        you can see the bank of relays & fuses bottom left
        68 RR #26 479ci-6bbl front top Dec. 2013.JPG

        I rarely even have to turn on the 13" fan, just precautionary for traffic etc.
        all of the relays & which are on a separate circuit & fuses
        thru 30amp Bosch relays
        & into the car with override toggle arming switches inside

        you can do it differently, this was just my preference

        (click on photos is say price, part #, where I bought IIRC & brand etc.)
        sorry my photos suck, here the schematic to how I have mine ran
        wasn't really for public consumption :poke: I'd have done a better job
        68 RR Switches Electronics & aux. Relay Schmatics.JPG
         
        Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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        • stage3

          stage3 Well-Known Member

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          how much power does that hot rod have? it seems that today manf r suggesting that anything over 600 hp might have a problem running an electric water pump on the street..i had problems in the past with 1, but today i have alot more fan (electric 1300 cfm x 2). and 26" aluminum radiator,. i have close to 700 hp. locked timing, seems to run a little hotter with the timing that way...would be great to get rid of the metal fan but, 300$ and the wiring is a gamble. it barely keeps up now depending on the temps.
           
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          • 64sleeper

            64sleeper FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            That's awesome, thanks for all the info!! I'm liking that set up a lot. A few questions... How big are the tubes on that rad? and which alt, alt brackets, and pulleys did you use? I def want to use a ribbed belt like that.
             
          • Brewzer67

            Brewzer67 Well-Known Member

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            I have had mine for two years and have had good luck so far. I can drive it anywhere and seldom go over the 180 thermostat temp and can actually keep it below that when just driving around town if I manually override the controller. The only time I go over 180 is on the freeway at really warm temps (over 85 degrees out) when I am driving for any extended time. I have 4.30 gears in the back so it is buzzing pretty high and it goes into heat soak. If I keep it at 65 or slower it runs about 190-195. If I step it up to 70-75 it will creep to 205 over time but that is as high as it gets. I think that is from the pump not pumping as much as a mechanical pump.
             
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            • stage3

              stage3 Well-Known Member

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              looks like u can get a pump that flows from 35 to 55 gpm,,,,,article on dragzine says this about the flow of a mech pump,,,,,"Most mechanical pumps in V8 engine applications flow somewhere in the vicinity of eight gallons per minute at idle, and ramp to 70 gallons per minute at 6,500 rpm.",,so if thats the case, then its more about air flow than water? i wonder how a 55gpm electric cvr pump combined with
              Moroso Water Outlet Restrictor Kits 63440
              would work.

               
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              • 6PKRTSE

                6PKRTSE Well-Known Member

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                I posted my set up on your 62-65 section post.
                 
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                • 64sleeper

                  64sleeper FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  What pump and rad are you running?
                   
                • Budnicks

                  Budnicks You Can Just Thank Me Later FBBO Gold Member

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                  the rad IIRC is 22", with 1/2" tubes 3-core from Mancini Racing
                  IIRC it was called MRE Custom Alum. Radiator, it's a bolt in
                  you have to call & order it specifically for your car,
                  (IF they still have the service, I bought it in 2005 IIRC)
                  where & what size, you want the inlet & outlet etc.
                  I just did the org. stock configuration & sizes
                  (I made the shroud myself, not sure it was really needed
                  but I thought it couldn't hurt either)

                  the chrome alt. bracket was from Mancini Racing

                  the Alt. is a 75 amp chrome case (wahoo) Powermaster
                  it's a later dual field, I converted to single field IIRC, it was from Summit Racing
                  (just ground one of the 2 field term.'s to the case with a little short wire)

                  the serpentine pulleys where from March Industries
                  (IIRC I got them from Magnum Force Racing, along with another oder)
                  dual lower crank pulley & single alt. pulley, separate belts
                  1 belt for the alt. & 1 for the PS
                  the PS pump came with a 6 rib serp. pulley from Uni-steer
                  (for my rack & pinion)
                  the 6 rib serpentine Gates belts are custom length
                  (I just measured with a piece of string)
                  & I went to a local Napa/Debco to get

                  the idler pulley to keep the PS belt away from the bottom of the WP
                  was from March Industries IIIRC too
                  (I made the mount for the idler, to use a 1/4" piece of 7075 alum. plate
                  to the top of the WP bolt support for the Org. PS bracket)

                  hope that helps some
                   
                  Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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                  • Budnicks

                    Budnicks You Can Just Thank Me Later FBBO Gold Member

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                    it's something in the neighborhood of 590-600 hp @ 6100-6200rpm-ish,
                    at it's current state, pulls hard up that point
                    (probably not making that above 5800-5900 right now, HP restrictive man.'s)
                    just a lowly street-strip drag-car, in search of a corner,
                    driver/car not dedicated racecar
                    (I've had a few of these types of stroker builds, this a tad milder than my old combo was,
                    mainly this one less converter & less camshaft &/or compression, is still 11:1 zero deck flatops
                    )
                    it's a little more hp with the step headers, like about 7%-10%
                    or more @ the RW
                    (I'm gonna' build a new set, long story, the headers I had wouldn't fit with the rack & pinion)
                    I had to put the hand ported HP manifolds & 3" head-pipes back on for a while
                    it's really choked down with the Iron HP manifold, runs at about 195*
                    in 100* Calif. summer here at altitude
                    with the step headers it was running cooler, at like 180*-185* pretty regularly
                    & the fans I used are 3000cfm puller w/shroud & 2900cfm pusher,
                    I didn't skimp on cfm, IMO it has plenty of cfm flow

                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    I run 18* initial timing & 18* of added advance, with an FOB 18* advance plate
                    for 36* total all in @ about 3000rpm & the softest adv. curve springs
                    (springs form Mr. Gasket or Moroso ?)
                    & it has an adj. vacuum advance, MP dist. from like 2007-ish
                    it's not ideal for an all-out racecar (750+hp) maybe, but works for my set up
                    & what I do with it, I'm sure I'd do pretty well at the track if it was set up for it too
                    (it's set up to actually handle & drive, big front & rear sway bars etc. & not just 1/4 mile blasts)

                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    as to the use of the 35gpm electric water pump
                    35gpm is plenty too (at my hp level anyway) I actually had to restrict some of the flow
                    (5/8" - 3/4" opening) so the water would stay in the radiator a tad bit longer

                    In my case a 55gpm or more volume/flow, I'd have had to restrict it even more
                    sort of defeats the purpose of more flow/volume

                    I've ran it like this now since 2007
                    with a 100 more HP, I may have decided or gone to a 55gpm pump
                    but it didn't need it "yet"

                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    If I had chose to use a wider 26" 'HD' style radiator
                    (my car never had)
                    I'd have to cut out & mod. the org. opening in the core-support
                    & different mounts for the radiator
                    to get the benefit of the extra 4" of flow & use a 26" radiator
                    I didn't cut anything on the car, it was a bolt in with the 22" MRE custom rad.
                    or almost any other aftermarket 22" lager tube alum rad.

                    (I had the 26" HD rad. in my 68 Charger, with a similar RB stroker 513cid build
                    mech. pump & fan & it didn't cool as well as what I have now, by any means
                    )

                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    I currently have no issues of overheating, whatsoever "yet"
                    even "putzing" around at near idle a lot
                    I do a bunch of test blast all the time, full throttle for 8-10 seconds or more
                    (or as long as I can on the roads here), it cools down rather quickly
                    it really doesn't spike much even, maybe 10* - 15* total (205* maybe)
                    albeit with the heat sink/Iron HP manifolds vs the headers,
                    it takes a bit longer to come back down to normal temp.s,
                    hopefully to cure that very soon, with the new custom home built headers
                    & scavenger 4-2-1 collectors, I will do sooner or later :poke: ...
                     
                    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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                    • Brewzer67

                      Brewzer67 Well-Known Member

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                      It is the CVR 55gph pump going through a Smith Bro's radiator. The radiator is a 26" (two 1-1/2" rows) with a homemade shroud with dual bypass doors for when I am at speed. I have dual 12" Spal fans and a Derale progressive controller for the fans (with manual override available for both the fans and the pump). Best guess based on my build is that the engine puts out somewhere in the low to mid 700hp range (no dyno or track results yet, only dyno software). Cooling it since I put this system in has been a non issue which was not historically the case. I used to fear having to sit in any kind of line getting into a show or just stuck in traffic. I may put a belt driven WP back on it to see if that helps on the longer cruises but I really like the ability to leave the pump and fans run for a bit when I park it to help with the heat soak issues I sometimes have because I use a mechanical fuel pump.

                      Fan_Setup1.jpg Fan_Setup2.jpg Fan_Setup3.jpg
                       
                      Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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                      • stage3

                        stage3 Well-Known Member

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                        thats interesting,,u have 4.30 gears and at speed it starts to creep with an electric 55gph pump. rumor has it that mech pumps flow from 7 gph at idle up to 70 at 6500 per dragzine article. i have 2 spal fans also,,1300 cfm each pullers, these guys blow some air. i run a moroso 160 high flow thermostat. with a mech moroso high flow paddle wheel pump now. was considering switching over to the cvr 55gph pump while making changes to the car...which means u r flowing more water than a mech pump at cruising speeds..but at low speed u dont have heat creep..maybe the moroso water restrictor plates would solve your problems? i'm on the fence still on switching over to the cvr pump.
                         
                      • Mike Gaines

                        Mike Gaines Well-Known Member

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                        Go figure this....I have a Meziere electric water pump and Spal fan on my 1000HP Hemi.
                        Here is the good part. I can drive up to the staging lanes, pull up in line several times, finally get called up and go into the water box. The motor is still at only about 150 degrees. Coming out of the water box it is about 160-170 degrees. I make the run and go thru the lites at 180 degrees. Come back down the return road, pick up my time slip and drive back to my pit and the temp gauge NEVER goes over 180 degrees. The key, I believe, is that my water system is modified to send the water to the heads FIRST. If you notice on the INDY web site they charge $300 to do this option, worth every penny.
                         
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                        • Brewzer67

                          Brewzer67 Well-Known Member

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                          From what I can hear the fans don't run at all when I am cruising down the road so at that time I am totally dependent on forced air flow through the grill and radiator only. I do think I may be getting air dammed up in the engine compartment because I don't have my scoop sealed to the carb so I'm pumping a bunch back into it that way. I am going to make an air pan this year and see if the temp creep goes away.
                           
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                          • stage3

                            stage3 Well-Known Member

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                            i'm wondering if swapping out your 180 degree thermostat, for a restrictor plate, or no thermostat would help,,,,,i have the moroso 160 high flow unit, but the flow holes on the bottom measure 1/4" x 1/2" x 3,,,,,thats not much for flow,,,,,another forum, BBC guy uses a meziere electric pump, warmed up power wise like yours,,he called meziere, they told him to not run a thermostat at all , he said he has never had a heating problem with it on the street,,,,i think at a minimum i will be taking out my thermostat and and try a washer or none at all.,,,,,,i just read over on the a-body forums that if u r running an electric water pump, then u should be using a restrictor plate only, or none at all.
                             
                            Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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