HELP! Fender Tag missing...

[bonum]

Hi,

my name is Johannes, and I am from Germany.
I have bought a 1968 Charger R/T. It's a lot of work, but it's not the first car I'm restoring. So I'm confident that I'm going to make it (sooner or later :-D)...

One problem though: The fender tag is missing. :-( Is there any chance to get the information that originally was on the fender tag with just having the VIN? (and then maybe reproduce it)
I did have a look under the rear seat (when I took it out), but I did not find any factory documentation sheet or something like that...
Or can anybody reproduce the factory documentation sheet from the VIN?

Thanks for the help!

Bonum

 

[696pack]

No.
1968-up models do not have the factory IBM card available from Chrysler Historical like the 67-down models do.
Without the factory broadcast sheet or original window sticker there is no way to tell what options the car was built with.
If it is an unrestored, unmolested car, a Mopar knowledgable person could determine how it was built, but that is still not FACTORY documentation.
The information in the V.I.N. will prove its an R/T and weather it is a 440 or Hemi car. There are telltale factory items that will tell you if it was a auto or 4 speed trans.
Any other options cost as much and usually more to purchase and install than the value they add to the car, so it serves no purpose other than the desire and convenience they provide to the person adding them. Options are added to these old car all of the time and many of them are available reproduction.

 

[bonum]

Thanks for the very quick answer...
It was not the one I hoped to get. :sad: But I was quite sure that a lost fender tag is lost forever... :sad:

Very interesting forum here. I will stop by more frequently as the restoration continues...

Bonum

 

[Deleted member 214]

I found a guy several years ago that made a tag for my car. I had no build sheet, but he looked the car over and asked me questions. I told him the air grabber wasn't original, the rear wing was a reproduction, but I wanted the tag to be accurate to the way the car was built, not the way it was when he saw it 30 years later. If I can find his address I'll send it to you - maybe if you document your car with pictures he will make a tag for you. I don't know if he is still in business even if I do find him, but I'll look. I am going to the Mopar Nationals this weekend, the largest high performance Mopar show in the US, and if I find any vendors who are making tags I'll get their information for you.

 

[rowdymopar]

Chances are someone removed it for a reason they are hiding something ?? maybe not an original R/T not a big Block car orig , not a 4 speed car , not a rare orig color or other rare options ??? if you whant you can post the Vin # or at least the first 7 digits & myself or others could decode it for you ????

 

[bonum]

Hi,
yes it could be possible that somebody wanted to hide some fraud. I would have bought it anyway as it was at a good price (at least for Germany :grin: ).

The VIN is XS29L8B296832

It should be an R/T. It has a 440, and an automatic gearbox. Original color seems to be (a little bit yellowish) white.

Thanks for your help! It is difficult to find experts for this kind of cars here in Germany...

Bonum

 

[Deleted member 214]

Bonum, Check out a Mopar decoder website I found at http://www.genocide2600.com/~traviso/mml/bodydecode.html. XS29L looks to be an R/T with 375-horse 440 4-bbl.

 

[bonum]

Already did (before I bought). R/T, 440 4bbl

I was hoping to find additional information about the car:
- Date-of-Birth
- Options
- Colors

Last US owner (January 2008) is from Fond du Lac, WI. But was not able to find him anymore.
And the title says "previously titles in: IL"

 

[69 Runner]

I think Galen lives in Fond du Lac. I wonder if he knows anything about it.

 

[rowdymopar]

Like I said MOST of the time a previous owner is hideing something about the car ?? No other reason for it to be removed ??

 

[696pack]

Like I said MOST of the time a previous owner is hideing something about the car ?? No other reason for it to be removed ??

I really don't agree with that.

I think most tags get remove and lost at body shops. Also as of late (last 10-15 years) since people have started placing importance on them, they have been removed for "safe keeping" and then forgotten, sold and not passed on.

We should not be so quick to assume people having something to hide or trying to make something it is not.

As with the case of this car which is clearly an R/T as indicated in both the V.I.N. model and engine code. It is an automatic car, (4 speed being more valuable to most) and there is no indication that the car is "loaded up" with options, so what is there to be suspicious about?

As to the color, if there is a thought that the car has been color changed, unless it was a complete resto, there is ALWAYS some clue as to it's original color. It is easier to do an interior color change with no evidence of the original than it is to do paint. Who cares about colors anyway? It is a matter of personal choice.

Some times a lost fender tag is a blessing and does not burden the owner with the deliema of "keeping it true" to original and allows them to do the paint and interior in THEIR choice. It only matters to the purists. In fact, the purists are the buyers that will grind you into the ground when you go to sell it just over the little details. They are actually a very small % of the hobby. There are a lot more buyers out there that when they want a particular car they simply buy what they want regardless of if it is true to the broadcast sheet and pay the price based on emotion and appearence of the car. It SEEMS that the purists are a larger group because they are the vocal ones that are always on the www. If you don't believe that, just go on Moparts and listen to their "opinions" on WIW threads. The funny thing is so many of the membership there value the opinions of the ones always on there commenting, and most are "50 cent" Internet millionarie car collectors and have never owned most of the cars they comment on. There is an old saying, "it is easy to spend someone else's money."

 

[69 Runner]

I agree with Darryl. There isn't much reason to assume someone is trying to perpetrate some kind of fraud. I know of a six pack car who's owner (previous owner actually) took the tag off when HE painted the car, and lost it in his OWN SHOP! I know of another six pack car who's tag was STOLEN before the car was purchased by someone I know. Then after the car had been restored and featured in a magazine, the tag turned up at a swap meet...on a guy's table.....on top of the magazine feature article. Guy claimed he didn't take the tag, but was not willing to GIVE the tag to the car's owner without some monetary remuneration.

Anyway...look closely at the car in odd places to find the original color. The tag is gone from my Duster (don't care, it's a /6 car) so I had no idea about the original color. But look at this pic..................

 

[rowdymopar]

I also agree that could happen unlikely but possible . Mine is not a 100 % original car I'v changed color & interior but I have the original tag to know what was orig . OK hear me out a local guy has a 74 ' 360 4 speed Cuda A rare car about 300 made no inner fender tag now how can he prove & I know that the car is originally a 4 speed car . Now if you can still pick them up cheap it does'nt matter but wene they are asking premium price I think it does matter . Unless they can document it another way .

 

[detmatt1]

I think there are plenty of inocent reasons that fender tags get removed. Just a theory, but I think it works. Back in the day, before it mattered, I think people were removing the tags at the same time they were installing there Hooker headers and chrome bits and peices in order to customize their rides and clean up the engine compartment. It is not like the fender tag is a good looking piece or anything.

 

[bonum]

@69 runner: Couldn't find a user named Galen. Can you help? Maybe he can stop by 13th Street E. ;-)

Well, in the end I do not care if everything is exactly according to original production. Nevertheless I would really like to know more about the history of my car.

 

[69 Runner]

I meant Galen Govier. He's the guy with all the documentation. Hard to get hold of tho. He's probably 6 months behind on work right now.

 

[696pack]

I also agree that could happen unlikely but possible . Mine is not a 100 % original car I'v changed color & interior but I have the original tag to know what was orig . OK hear me out a local guy has a 74 ' 360 4 speed Cuda A rare car about 300 made no inner fender tag now how can he prove & I know that the car is originally a 4 speed car . Now if you can still pick them up cheap it does'nt matter but wene they are asking premium price I think it does matter . Unless they can document it another way .

Well, I have been in the hobby for 40 years and I think it is more likely that people are innocent rather than guilty until proven so.

First of all, both you and the seller of the 74 4 speed Cuda need to understand that there is a difference between rare and desirable when it comes to value. This is not a 71 Cuda and the price of a 74 is 1/3 of the value of a 71 at best. Unless that particular car was a winning factory sponsored race car, it is not all that particularly desireable/valuable in the market. Therefore the 4 speed is only about a 5% difference in the total value of the car. If you look at the price of parts/labor/time to convert a car from auto to 4 speed you will find that the cost is more than the added value. If you want to buy the car this is what both you and the seller need to understand. If he thinks the car has any more value than this, then he is not realistic.

Picking them up "cheap" has little to do with it regarding the difference between a 4 speed or auto with this car because there is little difference in their value. It is more a matter of what a particular buyer wants in this car. If you bought the car as an auto and really WANTED a 4 speed enough to convert it, you would have more in it than if you paid the difference in the price if the car was a documentable factory 4 speed.

Do you see what I am trying to get across here? Purist are all hung up on what they can prove. MOST people in the hobby understand what I am saying above and base their buying decision on this, OR all reasonable though goes out the window and they buy emotionally and don't really care if they over pay for a car they like regardless of how it came from the factory. This is why you see so many modified, non factory equipped cars that sell for often MORE than factory documentable examples of the same car at the big auctions.

 

[69 Runner]

If it were me, I wouldn't even be interested in it with an automatic lol

Just look the car over really good. Look at the Z bar pivot on the frame rail to see if the welding is factory or not. If you can get under it, look at the floor where the hole has been cut for the shifter/hump to be installed.

Most people wouldn't go to the trouble to make those things look "factory" while doing a conversion

 

[bonum]

Ok, the reason for my missing fender tag is easy: it's not the original fender.
Obviously the driver side door and front fender have been exchanged. Underneath the white color they are red!

Well, I feel a bit better now, but still I'm hoping to somehow get the production/options information...

 

[CtownChris]

Bonum,

I have a name and address of a guy who make fender tags.
He only deals with people he thinks are legit.
I don't know how her comes to that conclusion but he asks lots of questions to try and only make a tag for the car the way it was built not how it looks today.

PM me

Chris