Any really fast turbo cars?

[lxmodguy]

I am well underway on my 64 Polara build. It is getting a 392 gen3 hemi with a 76mm turbo. I am expecting to make 800 on pump gas and 1000 on e85. I am wondering if there is a snowballs chance in hell it will hook on a 325 drag radial with caltracs? I have room for a 390 drag radial if that helps. I have enough room for a 12 inch wide wheel and slick if need be. What do you guys think? My Chassis guy wants to back half the car because he thinks that is the only way it will hook.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

You know the answer. Back half, cage, structurally reinforced all over. You can't just plop 800 to 1000 hp in a car and expect it to work. You will spin the tires off and twist the car up.

 

[lxmodguy]

I just really dont want to back half the car. It is 2x3 boxed connecting the sub frames. The cage will be tied into strut bars that go all the way to the front of the front frame rails.

 

[Moparmatt72]

Well could try a mini tub and street links set up from rms and weld it to the frame. Just an option. Amd just play with different drag radicals like the Hoosier quick time pros or something like them

 

[dvw]

I am well underway on my 64 Polara build. It is getting a 392 gen3 hemi with a 76mm turbo. I am expecting to make 800 on pump gas and 1000 on e85. I am wondering if there is a snowballs chance in hell it will hook on a 325 drag radial with caltracs? I have room for a 390 drag radial if that helps. I have enough room for a 12 inch wide wheel and slick if need be. What do you guys think? My Chassis guy wants to back half the car because he thinks that is the only way it will hook.

My son runs a 360 powered 62 Plymouth. The car and motor were nearly all stock w/ a 76mm turbo. It went as quick as 1.50 60 ft with nothing but rancho shocks on 2.55 M/T radials, running lower boost at 10.60s. Later in the year after several converter swaps,3 .23, cal Tracks, 275 M/T and slowly working the tune it went 10.08@136 but only 1.60 60 ft. This year we're stepping it up. 10" wheels, composite mono leaf, custom valved Afcos. With a turbo drag radial car it's about boost management, converter, gear ratio, and shocks. 2.76 gear works well with a Torqueflite. We're now going to a 3.55 only because we're using a Dana, may have to go to a taller tire to kill some gear. This car weighs 3750 race ready, this year about 3800.
Doug

 

[bigblock]

Wow!!!!

 

[Ryguytoodry]

Slant six torsion bars up front (The lift will help alot with weight transfer to the rear), 3800 lb Superstock Leafs, E.T. Streets. You'll hook up fine. Gotta remember that our cars are heavy, its not like throwing 1000 to the wheels in a fox body.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Get a new chassis guy.

http://www.dragzine.com/news/ron-rhodes-runs-4-65-at-151-mph-in-x275-on-leaf-springs/

 

[lxmodguy]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I dont anticipate my car being very heavy. Its a tubular k member and a arm front suspension with coil overs. No torsion bars at all. It shaved about 170# off the front. My gen 3 motor is 200# lighter than a big block. It wont have back seats. The front seats are light weight pro car seats. It has wilwood dynalight disc brakes. Aluminum fuel cell. Fiberglass hood and decklid. I am going to say it will be under 3000# for sure. It is already mini tubbed with caltracs and they adjustable shocks. It has M&H 325 drag radials, but as I said, I can fit a 390 under it with a 12 inch wheel.

 

[Budnicks]

Albeit in my case not with a Turbo combo... It can be made to work, even pretty well, but it won't ever be ideal, especially for 800-1000hp crank HP that's 650-850 to the tire, on a smaller tire... But if you plan on running on the street &/or driving to the track & running as you drove there, you don't have too many choices other than Drag Radials or some DOT type tire... I've gone best of 8.58 @ 156mph 479ci N/A w-300shot of N20 on a drag radial old M/T 315's {went best of 9.77 @ 135mph w-no N20, hooked pretty damn well, even on a 100* summer day un-prepped test & tune type track conditions, it'd run 9.90's all day}, in a stock style torsion bar suspension non-tubed 68 RR car, with Capps Automotive tubular parts up front & leafs rear, sub-frame tied etc. just a roll bar thou, with Calvert-CalTracs 3520#'s, best with the 3.73:1 gear & 4200rpm stall, with the 479ci & a trick 1050 QF Dominator on a highly modified TM/Tarantula single plane manifold... BUT I couldn't never put "all the power to ground, ever out of the hole/launch", I had to progressively ease it in by about 100-120ft, the technology in tires is a little better than it was back in 2007 thou, you maybe able to get it to hook allot better with more chassis & more tire {taller & wider the better} & especially a much lighter car under 3000#'s... Good luck sound like it will be a beast, maybe some photos & some more details, I'd like to see it... I'd do a 4 link myself & coil overs, If I was to do anything like that again, I'd use the biggest bias-ply race slicks I could fit too... I'd save the drag radials for the street, unless it's some rule or class your trying to run it in, that requires you to run drag radials...

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But also it's not the smartest or let alone safest thing, that I've ever done, it was on the brink of getting sideways at any moment on the juice, under full power... opinions will vary vastly thou... I was a little to much of puckering experience, if you get my meaning...

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Thanks for the feedback guys. I dont anticipate my car being very heavy. Its a tubular k member and a arm front suspension with coil overs. No torsion bars at all. It shaved about 170# off the front. My gen 3 motor is 200# lighter than a big block. It wont have back seats. The front seats are light weight pro car seats. It has wilwood dynalight disc brakes. Aluminum fuel cell. Fiberglass hood and decklid. I am going to say it will be under 3000# for sure. It is already mini tubbed with caltracs and they adjustable shocks. It has M&H 325 drag radials, but as I said, I can fit a 390 under it with a 12 inch wheel.

I'd say go with the biggest rim & tire you can fit, if it has to be a drag radial, than the 390 on a 12" wheel...

 

[Hemirunner]

THere are ALOT of guys putting ALOT more than 1000 HP on drag radials without a back half. It needs a well thought out cage (ie SFI 25.3 or something similar) preferably tied into the front spring mount and the rear shackle mount (most guys use sliders at that HP level) but don't listen to the 1970's purple shaft mentality on here, go find someone who's done it and glean all you can from them. My street car is 4250# with a 6point steel bar, makes over 1000 on spray and goes 9's on leafs on a 275 radial.

 

[dvw]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I dont anticipate my car being very heavy. Its a tubular k member and a arm front suspension with coil overs. No torsion bars at all. It shaved about 170# off the front. My gen 3 motor is 200# lighter than a big block. It wont have back seats. The front seats are light weight pro car seats. It has wilwood dynalight disc brakes. Aluminum fuel cell. Fiberglass hood and decklid. I am going to say it will be under 3000# for sure. It is already mini tubbed with caltracs and they adjustable shocks. It has M&H 325 drag radials, but as I said, I can fit a 390 under it with a 12 inch wheel.

Standard valved shocks won't cut it with Radials.
Go here for best results.
https://www.facebook.com/theshocknerd
Doug

 

[lxmodguy]

I really don't want to leave "hard" with the car. I would much rather leave on motor, plant the car with maybe just 2-5 psi in first gear and then bring in 8-10 PSI in second, and about 16 PSI in third. Obviously it will take a lot of fiddling around to see where it hooks and what it likes. The motor will make about 550 horsepower and torque at the tires without any boost. So I figure 1.5 60ft's with good traction and layering in the boost. I originally wanted a 10 second car I could drive anywhere. I think it is going to be more like an 8 second car that I turn the boost down to drive on the street. It should make an honest 800 rear wheel horsepower on pump gas. I figure I should be able to drive it to the track on pump gas run 9's and drive it home. Then if I want to trailer it, turn up the boost and put it on e85 it should go 8's I would think.

Another question, I have the calvert adjustable rear shocks. You guys think I need something else?

 

[Moparmatt72]

In order to do the different boost levels going to have to get an electronic controller capable of boost per gear. I had an HKS one on my neon srt4 kept boost lower to what set it to then as speed or gear increased I brought boost up and full boost by 3rd-5th gear. That and a one to one fuel pressure regular with boost or vac source which I'm sure you already have.

 

[lxmodguy]

I tune boosted EFI cars all the time. Probably 30-50 of them most years. I am not sure if I am going to try to do a "boost over time strategy" or a "boost by gear" strategy. More than likely I will do boost by gear with a AMS-2000 controller. I like their boost strategies and their safety features

 

[Moparmatt72]

I like that one as well, was thinking about going with that one on my next engine build which will be a twin turbo set up.

 

[dvw]

I really don't want to leave "hard" with the car. I would much rather leave on motor, plant the car with maybe just 2-5 psi in first gear and then bring in 8-10 PSI in second, and about 16 PSI in third. Obviously it will take a lot of fiddling around to see where it hooks and what it likes. The motor will make about 550 horsepower and torque at the tires without any boost. So I figure 1.5 60ft's with good traction and layering in the boost. I originally wanted a 10 second car I could drive anywhere. I think it is going to be more like an 8 second car that I turn the boost down to drive on the street. It should make an honest 800 rear wheel horsepower on pump gas. I figure I should be able to drive it to the track on pump gas run 9's and drive it home. Then if I want to trailer it, turn up the boost and put it on e85 it should go 8's I would think.

Another question, I have the calvert adjustable rear shocks. You guys think I need something else?

We've tried this scenario as well. Low boost=no stall speed. Not to rain on your deal but 800hp will never get a 8 second slip with a 1.50 60ft. We've been pretty active in trying stuff with the combo ,2 gear changes, 2 tire sizes, 3 converters, lots of engine, boost, timing curves, jetting changes, boost curves. It is a 10 second car that can drive anywhere. I don't know how much suspension tuning you've done. The radial deal is a whole new world. I'm also chasing the 8s with a 3350lb N/A car. It is not as cheap and easy as people would have you believe.
Good luck
Doug

 

[lxmodguy]

I have no illusions about it being cheap. It makes me shudder to think about how much I have spent. It really isnt the same thing when you are talking about an EFI car with a electronic trans. My only real concern is getting the car to hook. There will be more power there than I will need. If I really wanted to ring the thing out there is probably close to 1200 wheel horsepower there with on e85. I do agree that a 1.5 60ft will make it very hard to get into the 8's. I see guys going 1.1's on leaf springs. I just dont want to leave that hard. So even if it goes low 9's I will be happy with it

 

[dvw]

We are going to build a Gen3 turbo next. I agree 1200hp should be doable, but it will take a good piece. Hooking 1200 will be impossible w/o all 4 state of the art shocks, correct converter and gear. Less than 3000 with a B-Body is tough also. Though mine is a big block it weighs 3120 w/o driver. Add me and fuel it's 3340. That's not a street car. We're talking Lexan windows, light seats, chrome moly cage, ladder bar (lighter than Cal Tracks), light brakes, light steering column, gutted doors, 5 gallon aluminum fuel cell, carbon fiber bumper brackets, no wipers, no turbo or full exhaust, and it's a Plymouth which is 3" shorter W.B. (that's 3"worth of roof and floor pan).Granted the Gen 3 is 200lbs lighter, maybe 250lbs. For what it's worth, the entire stock front suspension minus shocks and brakes doesn't weigh 175lbs, so you can't lose 175lbs by changing to aftermarket stuff. Your project sounds great. Just trying to show some realistic numbers from experience.

 

[lxmodguy]

I appreciate the experience. Thats is exactly why I was asking the questions. All the old school guys tell me I am crazy it will never hook. They also think I am nuts to have a gen3 motor with a 4L80 behind it. I know what we use, I know what holds up to the power. I have some tricks up my sleeve to help get the weight down. Mostly a really good CNC guy and an unlimited budget. I was counting the whole pile of stuff on the front. K member, brakes, steering box, torsion bars, wheels and tires etc. The k member was 17# the brakes were next to nothing by comparison to those massive drums that were on it.