Aluminum head issue. External coolant leak. Advice needed.

[Wookie316]

Hi guys. Have an issue with a MP aluminum head (P5153524) and need advice and or opinions on what to do. I only have about 600 miles on this engine and have had an external coolant leak that has been like a needle in the haystack to find. It has always had coolant on top of the oil pump (B) engine. I thought it was possibly the head gasket itself because the coolant was running down the edge of the block/head also. It has the Cometic C5461-040 gasket installed. I pressured the system up and could never find a leak when cold. Only seems to leak when hot. I found a loose WP housing bolt and thought I had found my problem. Anyways I went to a cruise last night and when I go home I could smell antifreeze, so upon inspection I once again have coolant on top of the oil pump. Looking around a bit I can see a coolant streak on the D/S head at the front. I had noticed it before, but thought it was blow back from my electric fan. I had a leaky water neck at one time which has since been repaired, so I now know it is not blow back from the fan.
So, I am now thinking I either have a porous head or a micro crack that is opening up when the engine gets warm. If you look at attached photo, look close at the “o” in Mopar. This is where I believe it is coming from.
Now being this is obviously a manufacture issue and not an abuse or improper install issue, I am wondering who I may be able to contact to possibly get some sort of warranty out of this? Of course it is past a year since I purchased the head and I know if I go back to where I got it, they will give me the line that it is past the time limit, but perhaps someone has a contact to an insider in the Mopar chain that may take a look at it and help with the purchase price of a new head? I know it is a long shot and it probably won’t lead anywhere, but it never hurts to inquire?
I am already prepared to the fact that I am probably going to end up having to buy a new head anyways, but thought I’d get opinions on some ideas I’m kicking around?
1. Will a guy be able to pull the head and have someone successfully weld the spot? I am guessing they would need to grind a groove in it to have the weld hold. This is a long shot but I thought I could swap the heads side to side then the repair would face the back on the P/S.
2. If I ultimately have to by a replacement head, do I by a single MP head for that side, or do I look at swapping them for either Edelbrock performer RPM’s or 440 Source Stealth’s?
3. Since it’s an external leak, any ideas what I could put on it to get me through summer? Don’t want to pull apart till winter if I don’t have to. I’m thinking about cleaning the surface and trying an epoxy of some sort to perhaps seal it up. It’s not leaking bad, just enough to be a major annoyance.
So if any of you have some advice in to regards to what to do, or what you would do if you were in my shoes, I’d sure appreciate it! Thx in advance for all your responses. Enjoy your weekend.

 

[GearAddict]

Can't help you on question #1, I'm sure others will chime in.

#2... this seems like purely a cost question. If you were happy with the performance of the heads (other than your quality issue) than probably cheaper to just buy 1 MP head if you can't have it repaired.

#3... I have solved many a coolant leak with JB Weld. If it's as small as you say, you might be able to put a dime size blob on there and be done with it for the next 5 years.

also, you should be able to be 100% sure of the leak from that spot before you do anything drastic... I see no reason why you couldn't clean the surface in question with alcohol, let dry, tape clean white paper square over suspect area, watch while engine warms up while idling, you should see the leak appear.

 

[Redhorse719]

It's aluminum it can easily be fixed. You will probably have to take it off, have it pressure checked and once the leak/spot is found mark it, and take it to your welder. Let the welder prep and weld. You might have to add some heat to the area while it is under pressure.

 

[Jackpot50]

Head leak fix

Buy some stuff called seal tabes you can get them at a GM dealer, GM makes them to seal porous castings that get out like you have. I have used these in past and they do work great.
They are vegetable protein and will not clog heater core or radiator.
Crush them up and put in radiator. Then you can drive it and decide which repair to do.
Good luck

 

[lewtot184]

It's aluminum it can easily be fixed. You will probably have to take it off, have it pressure checked and once the leak/spot is found mark it, and take it to your welder. Let the welder prep and weld. You might have to add some heat to the area while it is under pressure.

X2; the greatest advantage to alum heads is the ease of repair. I wouldn't rule out the cometics as an issue.

 

[Wookie316]

Ok. So any shop that pressure tests heads should be able to repair this then? My big annoyance is like I say. The motor literally has around 600 miles on it. Too pull it half apart already just ticks me off.

 

[AMX364]

I have pulled a aluminum Eddy head with much less miles for repair. I did not like it either but, after the decision was made it went fairly fast and was easy to repair by a pro.

 

[lewtot184]

I bought my first set of edelbrock heads a few months ago. I couldn't believe the porosity and rough casting. they were so crummy inside the portwalls, and the cnc'ed port windows so mismatched I had to get in there and clean the mess up. one head had shims under the spring cups and the other didn't, but the valve height was the same on both heads,..weird! going back to iron; in fact I bought some hugh's ported 452's monday.

 

[Wookie316]

I'm thinking of a 4 letter word. Can you guess what it is? Fixed leak at thermostat on a long shot that the fans were blowing coolant back. This is what happened when I put pressure on the system.

 

[nm9stheham]

I would see what JB would do for that spot. The pore has to be teenie-tiny to be so slow, so even an outside patch should hold good if you clean the area well. I would, however, call the source to see what can be done under warranty before doing anything. Long term, since you proabably are stuck with it due to time (they have no way to verify it only has 600 miles on it), just weld it up; that should be a ton cheaper than a new head. And there is nothing saying that a new head won't have a leak also, and maybe inside a port where you can't see it.

 

[440+6]

That makes me wonder if your getting leaks internally too.

 

[lewtot184]

don't play with this. pull both heads. hot anti-freeze will cause all kinds of problems if it gets in the combustion chamber or crankcase.

 

[cdr]

if it was mine i would drill a hole & run a thread tap & put a small pipe plug with sealant on it,if that does not work THEN pull the head

 

[samedaze]

Check the cometic gaskets I've used them before and they do leak especially if the engine sits for any length of time.

 

[nm9stheham]

Well, hot anti-freeze gets into combustion chambers pretty regularly in small amounts and there is not havoc. If the coolant is not dropping to a noticeable degree, then it will be OK. Seal this up and see if the coolant stays OK and also run a pressure test; if the pressure holds, it is safe to conclude that there is no coolant leak inside.

 

[lewtot184]

Well, hot anti-freeze gets into combustion chambers pretty regularly in small amounts and there is not havoc. If the coolant is not dropping to a noticeable degree, then it will be OK. Seal this up and see if the coolant stays OK and also run a pressure test; if the pressure holds, it is safe to conclude that there is no coolant leak inside.

have you ever had hot anti-freeze in a combustion chamber before, even small mists?

 

[Wookie316]

My gut tells me that it's just an external leak and not internal. I say that just because of where it is as well my oil is clean. My dilemma now is to I try and patch to get me through summer, or do I pull this head because there could be a deeper issue yet to be discovered? Decisions.

 

[miller]

Whatever fix you do...I'd let Mopar pay for it.

 

[sleepar]

That's just not right I would drill and tap a plug if mopoor gives you a hassle... and retork the heads any way... a lot of people have head gasket trouble because they don't retork them after break in.... and it's common to have leaks like you are having in the first 600 miles except for in the casting.... it's sad but everything is junk now..... unless you get quality because it slipped by the bean counters in some freak accident or disgruntled employees that aren't on the 'team' we're all screwed.

 

[nm9stheham]

have you ever had hot anti-freeze in a combustion chamber before, even small mists?

Absolutely.... just did R&R on a head that had been leaking AF into one cylinder for 2-3 years from a head gasket leak..... bore was fine, and the engine runs like new with off-the-showroom-floor power and fuel mileage. It had finally gotten bad enough to cause occasioonal misfires, and the car threw a code for that now in then in the last 2 months. Have had other small head gakset leaks into cyclinders...nothing ever blew up or got damaged. Now these are not blown funny car engines, just up to about 1 HP per cubic inch.

Stop and think about it.....in a very rainy day or splashing through deep water, you get bits of water into engines all the time. With diesels, you have to be very careful, which is why they have air/water separators in the intake system somewhere. But gas engines... small amounts are not an issue.

- - - Updated - - -

My gut tells me that it's just an external leak and not internal. I say that just because of where it is as well my oil is clean. My dilemma now is to I try and patch to get me through summer, or do I pull this head because there could be a deeper issue yet to be discovered? Decisions.

1) Call Mopar if you think that can work out for you.
2) Do the external patch so you can get to steps 3&4 which will tell you what you want to know.
3) Get a pressure tester and pressurize the cooling system to just under the cap limit. Let it set for a while. If it holds steady, then you know things are seald cold.
4) If 3 is good, drive it around for a coupld of weeks and keep good track of the coolant level. If it does not drop, be happy 'til next winter when you pull the head. If the coolant drops, go onto the next phase of pulling and having the individual head pressure-checked at a local shop to see what else is leaking.

Or, skip to step 4 right now.

This is all very direct and testable with well established tools and procedures; no need to wonder and fret.