Rear main seal 440

[benno440]

Hey guys, I have replaced my rear main seal 5 times now, I have tried 2 billet mancini styles, 1 440 source style, and reused the stock one twice. and have always had the pesky drip, and yes they are installed correct way around and no it is not leaky from anywhere else, I have checked the oil galleys in the back and the oil pressure sender location and all dry.
I have the sump off again and going to try and stop this leak once and for all.
my question is what is the best way to do this and whats the best type/brand seal to use. Where is the best place to use the RTV silicone?

Do you put silicone is item "A" the cup where the seal sits?
Do you put silicone down the sides in "B" where the side seals sit?

I am going to remove the 5 main bearing holder so I can get some rtv on the join between the block and seal holder as well. I am using arp main studs so I have to grind a groove out of the seal holder as well.

 

[GetX'd]

I'm not the keeper of wisdom when it come to this - but you may find it useful to know my engine builder tried all the expensive, several source seals because of the same problem with my 440. He finally went back to the stock rope seal and that was the only thing that stopped the pesky leak. Apparently that type of seal swells up and tightens the seal more as exposed to oil. Now I'll let others that have more detail to offer chime in. I thought this little nugget of info may be beneficial.

 

[benno440]

thanks, do you know how they install the rope seal? is it after seal holder is installed and slid up the sides?

 

[benno440]

anyone know where to get the rope style rear main seals, they seem to work well after some research

 

[DODGER]

i`ve replaced the rear main seal on my 65 Plymouth 383 with a billet Retainer from manciniracing.

Used a seal from Felpro.

A little RTV on both sides of the Retainer.
So far no Oil leaking!

 

[benno440]

yeh tried that one twice, still leaks

 

[GetX'd]

I'll find out for you in the morning. Middle of the night here right now.

 

[miller]

thanks, do you know how they install the rope seal? is it after seal holder is installed and slid up the sides?

The older rope seals are the actual main seal around the crank...not the sides. There is a so-called tool that was used, basicly to force the seal into place, before dropping the crank in. For both 'halves' of the seal, once in place, you have to trim off the excess, and when you put the cap half of the seal on, the ends crush together.

The side seals are supposed to swell, when contacting oil.

Using the shown seals (not the rope type), try the super black rtv, thin coat only on the outer diameter of the main seal, where each half fits into the block and cap. Before installing the cap, thin coat of rtv on the ends of the seal in the cap.
Might also check the crank itself, with a dial indicator, to make sure it's not out-of-round.

 

[Dennis H]

In my opinion this is an Art. Mine was installed by my tuner who lives - breathes Mopar. It does not leak. He has done many in the past.

 

[benno440]

crank is brand new K1 stroker crank, I have seen how the rope seal is installed and they say to use the sneaky pete tool to pull it through. what to use for side seals though?

- - - Updated - - -

In my opinion this is an Art. Mine was installed by my tuner who lives - breathes Mopar. It does not leak. He has done many in the past.

can he share his secret, finding a mopar guru is not as easy in australia

 

[miller]

Not sure what brand the crank was, but there's another thread on rear seals, where it was found the 'new' crank was out of shape (lol, not round) at the seal journal! Methinks it would be worth checking.

Not sure what to tell you on the side seals. The oil-swelling type was from Mopar, but came in many gasket sets. But...that was then...not nowadays. Guess it depends on who you buy from.

I found installing those side seals, to start them partways down. When you push the retainer into place, the side seals will 'slip' up as the retainer goes down. Just practice to get them where they need to be...need to seal at each end of the side seals, too.

 

[451Mopar]

I have had good luck with the orange rear main seals from Superformance and Fel-Pro.
I put a little smear of RTV in the seal grooves and just slightly offset the seal at the mating surface. Then I run a small smear of rtv across the block/cap mating surface, and leave a bit in the corner of the block. The Seal kit I use has the silicone(?) side seals which take a bit of time to work them into position.
With all the issues you have been having, Make sure to inspect the crank seal surface, and the block to cap mating surfaces. Note that there is no seal or gasket where the block and seal retainer end meet, so as I mentioned earlier, a very small amount of RTV to seal any surface imperfections.

 

[benno440]

cranks perfect, short block was put together and meticulously checked and installed by one of australias best mopar engine builders, I did the rear main myself though.
not sure whether to try the rope seals out or just give the new styles 1 last shot

 

[khryslerkid]

First thing, throw away the silicone sealer! I've never known it to seal anything. The slightest oil contamination on your part, it won't stick. Use Permatex #2 on any mating surface for a good seal.

Use the rope seal for the main seal. The two piece orange for the outer seal. The solid would be better with the trans removed.

Your local parts house should have this installation tool for the upper rope.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w84019?seid=srese1&gclid=CK_Km7eap8ACFVJo7Aod4nQA3Q

I wouldn't loosen all of your bearing caps to drop the crank. Could cause problems!

 

[Homstead]

After replacing that many lip seals I would do the rope seal and not look back. I have found some of the blocks are not machined concentric to the crank. The rope seal will allow for this. Rope seals can be difficult to install in the car but the Sneeky Pete tool is the only way I know to install them. Dropping the crank helps a bit. As for the side seals, I have been packing the groove with the "Right Stuff" sealer, then installing the retainer. I pack the outside of the retainer with a little more at the groove. It`s a lot harder with the engine in the car though. I use a small (thin) putty knife to get it in there. It looks good and never leaks. Goodluck Benno! I always like reading your posts!

 

[benno440]

thanks guys I will try this technique, I am using a magnumforce k member so I got tonnes of room under there and nothing else needs to be removed to do this.

is it untrue that a rope seal should not be used if exceeding 4500rpm? I read somewhere that the rope seal can deteriorate at high rpms?

 

[benno440]

whats the best sealant to use? RTV seems a bit brittle for my liking

 

[kiwigtx]

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/wmr-w84019_w.jpg

Is the tool above what has been referred to as a Sneaky Pete?
Watching this thread with interest :icon_thumright:

 

[bm02tj]

yes

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Where are you using RTV? just the sides I hope? I used the the ones from 440source they work great. I may have missed this but you are installing them half way round each right? offsetting the gap.