440 help!

[1965wagon]

So I am building a 65 Plymouth station wagon to run NSS/index stuff and i am shooting for 12.0/11.5s with it.
I am getting ready to start building the engine i have a standard bore 69 hp 440 it will be bored out .030 to fit my flat top KB piston six pack rods with ARP bolts and steel crank. duel 500 cfm afbs on inline Elderbrock intake

1.) first question how much should I/can I deck the block only looking for 10/10.5:1 i am going to run a set of 906 heads and they will be cut.040 with bigger valves

2.) i am looking at cams and wondering if i should go hydraulic or flat tappet if i can get to my desired ET with hydraulic i would because i am also wanting to street drive the car alot

3.) 3rd thing is the car is a 4 speed a-833 with 4.10 gear and ss springs it has a McLeod soft lok clutch and long inline 4 speed shifter so i am probably beating my head against the wall but any help would be appreciated!

 

[Longroof]

Great build. I have a 64 Savoy wagon and am shooting for very similar et goals. I would run NSS but there are no NSS events near me on the west coast... so I am going to run Summit Sportsman where there is a 12.0 et limit...

First question, why the 6 pack rod? They are really heavy and the LY is more than capable of handling the power level that you are planning on making.

Aluminum heads would be a benefit for a pump gas engine, with your planned compression ratio iron heads may be on the edge.

Go Flat tappet cam. No drawback over a hydraulic cam on the street IMHO.

 

[1965wagon]

I went with the six pack rid because I had a set that are polished and bushed ready to go with ARP bolts already and I didn't know if street driving I would have to run the valves more often then if I had the hydraulic

 

[moparsteve636]

1965 wagon, You'll have to have a scatter shield and an SFI approved flywheel, and SFI approved crank damper to be NHRA legal for 11.99 and quicker! I'd also go with the hyd. cam setup for the street driving. Just a suggestion!

 

[1965wagon]

Thanks and and yephave those 2 things especially the scatter shield I like my feet lol!

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[bobtile]

1965 wagon, You'll have to have a scatter shield and an SFI approved flywheel, and SFI approved crank damper to be NHRA legal for 11.99 and quicker! I'd also go with the hyd. cam setup for the street driving. Just a suggestion!

with an auto trans, do you need a trans blanket at 11.99 as well? Sorry for the quick post jack

 

[1965wagon]

No problem and no not until 10.90 I think

 

[bobtile]

No problem and no not until 10.90 I think

Awesome car. Good luck with it.

 

[1965wagon]

Thanks I read your build I hope my wagon eventually will run that good!

 

[bobtile]

Thanks I read your build I hope my wagon eventually will run that good!

You'll do better.

 

[383man]

I used to run a 906 headed 440 in my 63. It was basically a stock bottom end I built with KB quench pad pistons. I cut the heads to get a true 10.0 comp and used Isky ductile iron adjustable rockers and the MP solid .557 cam. I had a Holley Street Dominator on it and an 850 DP carb. In my 63 I used a 727 with a manual V/B and a 9.5 Dynamic conveter. With 4.30's and 30 x 9 tires it ran a best of 11.49 @ 116 and my car weighs just over 3700 lbs with me in it.
Are you dead set on the 906's as I do agree an aluminum head like the Eddy RPM's would work nice and you can run around 10.5 and build quench in it to run on pump ? My 493 in my 63 now has a closed chamber aluminum head at 10.6 comp and .046 quench and it runs fine on 92 pump even with 37 total timing.
Thats a very cool wagon you have as I like the NSS racing and wish I could do it more as I ran once this year and raced in the NSS class and also once last year. It is alot of fun. Good luck with your build. Ron

 

[lewtot184]

So I am building a 65 Plymouth station wagon to run NSS/index stuff and i am shooting for 12.0/11.5s with it.
I am getting ready to start building the engine i have a standard bore 69 hp 440 it will be bored out .030 to fit my flat top KB piston six pack rods with ARP bolts and steel crank. duel 500 cfm afbs on inline Elderbrock intake

1.) first question how much should I/can I deck the block only looking for 10/10.5:1 i am going to run a set of 906 heads and they will be cut.040 with bigger valves

2.) i am looking at cams and wondering if i should go hydraulic or flat tappet if i can get to my desired ET with hydraulic i would because i am also wanting to street drive the car alot

3.) 3rd thing is the car is a 4 speed a-833 with 4.10 gear and ss springs it has a McLeod soft lok clutch and long inline 4 speed shifter so i am probably beating my head against the wall but any help would be appreciated!

flat top pistons with open chamber heads means no quench. the kb236 piston will yield 10.5 with a good quench.

solid lifter cams would be preferred.

500cfm carbs are too small.

i wouldn't worry about the rods. lighter pistons have more of an impact.

 

[Darter6]

This is a old photo of my 65. I ran a "B" block stroked to 451. Fully streetable with 4.10 gears.Hydralic Comp cam with .490 lift. Pump gas about 9 to 1 with Eddy 88cc heads.The car ran in NSS/E that is 12.00. The car would run 11.90's and I would add weight when needed.
Your combo should have you right in the range you are looking for.You should do a mock up with the block and pistons to see where you are/how close to zero deck and judge from there.
I'm really diggin' you car ! good luck and have fun.

 

[1965wagon]

Thanks everyone for all the input it is very appreciated! I am not new to mopar or racing but i am new to the big block game i had a 340 67 valiant 4 speed!

i am working very hard to get this out by spring so I will keep all of you up to date on my progress! I like coming on this board people are friendly and there is lots of good info!

 

[bobtile]

flat top pistons with open chamber heads means no quench. the kb236 piston will yield 10.5 with a good quench.

solid lifter cams would be preferred.

500cfm carbs are too small.

i wouldn't worry about the rods. lighter pistons have more of an impact.

Why do you think they are too small? I have them on an old Offenhauser 2x4 manifold and went 11.36 with them. He is looking for 12.0 / 11.5 and with a better manifold.

 

[lewtot184]

Why do you think they are too small? I have them on an old Offenhauser 2x4 manifold and went 11.36 with them. He is looking for 12.0 / 11.5 and with a better manifold.

well, a 500 is just a 600 with a screwed up primary cluster to restrict air flow and costs more $$$. the 3447's on 413's and 426's were the same size as 600's, throttle bore and venturii wise, and the 3705's on the '64's were the same size as edelbrock 750's which are the same size as street hemi ss/b cheater carbs, and i'm driving around on a pair of 600's and don't think they're big enough, and cfm ratings don't mean squat anyway. just think how fast you'd go with real carbs. all these carterbrocks are velocity controlled, so how do you over carb? seriously, if you like 500's go for it.

 

[bobtile]

I don't know carbs, that is why I asked.

 

[lewtot184]

I don't know carbs, that is why I asked.

i've played with carbs for decades. made my share of mistakes with them. i'm actually fairly conservative with them, but i believe there are a lot of bugaboos and myths out there. i understand that intake systems, (carbs and manifolds) can be complicated, confusing and frustrating. true race stuff has become an art. everything is a learning curve, just wish it was cheaper,...lol.

 

[dvw]

Welcome to the N/SS world, great racers, a lot of fun. I would do the following. Unless you already have the carbs get the 600's. They're all over used, cheap. Again unless you have a finished set of 906 heads, I agree with the Eddy heads. Last, run the solid cam. If you have to lash it once a year I'd be surprised. Pump gas at 11-1 with the aluminum heads and a Mopar .557 solid will get you there.
Doug

 

[1965wagon]

Thanks for the carb suggestions I think I might have some 600s I will look into!