Collapsed lifter?

[moparedtn]

Hey guys-
Next issue on the GTX comeback happened recently.
Details again, quickly:
440, supposedly rebuilt by another (now deceased) about 5 years ago but recently just started driving it, so basically still breaking in.
Has the bigger hydraulic purpleshaft, stock 906 heads and stock short block.
Engine has been a bugger to dial in the Holley 750 vacsec 3310 carb. Has Mopar electronic ignition conversion kit. Finally got it running halfway decent and took it to its' first show.

Problem...
Symptoms: Started burning oil out the drivers' side, blue smoke out the tailpipe on that side.
Audible (but not a total) miss on that side as well, running sorta rough.
Pulled new spark plug, plug is wet with oil on threads and electrode but not fouled yet.
Pulled valve cover and started wiggling rockers, seemed ok.
Started pushing down on pushrods and lo and behold, the #3 intake pushrod is EASILY plunged down by fingers. I can feel the plunger of the lifter go down against VERY little resistance, then bottom in what I assume to be the bottom of the lifter.
Audibly, too - you can hear and feel the lifter plunger bottom out.

Captain Obvious question:
Am I to assume I just have a failed/collapsed lifter (in which case, I'll replace all the dang things) or should I worry about more than that?

Thanks in advance as always!
Ed

 

[dieseldazzle]

What did the compression tests results show???

 

[moparedtn]

What did the compression tests results show???

I fail to see where that's pertinent at this point in the conversation.
Anyone else?

 

[dieseldazzle]

When I had this happen I had popping through the intake at acceleration and I wasnt 100% if the cam lobe had failed or it was the lifter. It had to come apart anyway.


That cylinder was down in compression.

 

[Cranky]

It's all pertinent. To find out if the lifter is working or not, a compression test will tell you the full story. If 'that' cylinder show low PSI, you can probably confirm that lifter isn't working but it may be working when the engine is running and the oil pressure is up. You might have another cylinder that's not working or is weak. Generally, a bad lifter won't make the engine smoke. Also, a compression test is usually pretty high on the list of doing engine diagnostics. If it's smoking, it sounds to me like there are other issues.

 

[dieseldazzle]

I also pulled my rockers off and made sure with light pressure the lifter followed the lobe.

- - - Updated - - -

It's all pertinent. To find out if the lifter is working or not, a compression test will tell you the full story. If 'that' cylinder show low PSI, you can probably confirm that lifter isn't working but it may be working when the engine is running and the oil pressure is up. You might have another cylinder that's not working or is weak. Generally, a bad lifter won't make the engine smoke. Also, a compression test is usually pretty high on the list of doing engine diagnostics. If it's smoking, it sounds to me like there are other issues.

I didnt want to answer a nasty response with another nasty response.

Guy needs help regardless of his full understanding of the 4 cycle gasoline combustion engine.

 

[moparedtn]

Not trying to be rude at all, don't misunderstand here....and I have a working knowledge of engines...
but when my first preliminary fiddling around discovers that ALL the other pushrods will not push down
any at ALL except for ONE (as in all the other lifters are pumped up at rest)...
It ain't a coincidence that it happens to be on the same cylinder that's having issues.

I immediately made the assumption that:
a. one lifter is collapsed
b. unless the engine builder put in ONE old Rhoads lifter

Logical, eh?

 

[lewtot184]

collapsed lifter won't oil down a plug. you got some issues beside a tappet.

 

[dieseldazzle]

Its all good moparedtn, the bottom line is we are all just throwin around ideas here and want to see your MOPAR up and running and your face SMILING!!

I mentioned the compression test due to the smoking and missing amongst other things my man.

Id crank the motor over with the plugs out and a healthy charge and do a compression test and while doing that Id have the valve cover off watching that lifter.

 

[moparedtn]

Groovy.
Would it not make sense to at least get a good lifter in there first before doing compression, though?

 

[dieseldazzle]

Groovy.
Would it not make sense to at least get a good lifter in there first before doing compression, though?

Well if you are going to pull it apart for that then you can have a really good look around.

Sad news is that with it smoking blue out the pipe all the sudden and the plug oiled down like that you may have another issue.

 

[moparedtn]

Weird part is, it doesn't smoke when fired up, just after first taking off, like oil is seeping by a valve seal when it's sitting quiet.
Wonder if my putting full synthetic in it has anything to do with it?

 

[lewtot184]

if it were mine i'd do a cylinder leak down test.

 

[moparedtn]

Shadetree mechanic with shadetree equipment here, guys.
My dad taught me how to work on cars as a kid 40 years ago, but I don't have leakdown equipment, whatever that is.
I'd love to have all the fancy stuff some of you do, but getting cancer a few times and paying medical bills kind of takes the cash elsewhere, ya know?

Blessed to still be above dirt at all, really, and this car is my last shot at having one more b-body before I'm done.
Needless to say, a hurt motor now after all these years of hell is heart-breaking.
So close...

 

[Cranky]

Leak down testers are not expensive and making one is even cheaper.....

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=make+a+leak+down+tester

And glad you're still above the dirt!

 

[moparedtn]

Well, I've pulled it apart. The news isn't good.
I have two severely scalloped lifters on #3, both intake and exhaust side by side.
The other 14 lifters look like new.

I started rotating the engine by the crank to have a look at the lobes on this 292 purpleshaft
and...you guessed it...the two lobes for #3 are visibly much lower in lift and the hardening/shine
has been worn off them.
Reckon that's what they mean by "the cam is wiped"?

Damn. Just damn.
To get this close, only to have this happen. Makes me wanna cry.

 

[65Fury440]

Man that sucks, sorry to hear it!

 

[moparedtn]

Man that sucks, sorry to hear it!

Thanks. I've heard stories of bad purpleshaft cams and this one certainly is a candidate for that title.
This engine was built about 5-6 years ago, so I think that puts it in the timeline?

 

[moparedtn]

Everyone likes pics, right?
Well, here ya go. Scalloped lifters, wiped cam, etc.
I won't be getting another purpleshaft, that's for damn sure.
Suggestions?

 

[lewtot184]

are those the stock red magnum springs? if so it ain't the cams fault. check the valve seals to see if they're clobbered and roll the push rods across a flat surface to make sure they aren't bent.