I Know Nothing About Performance Cam Shafts

[Auggie56]

I worked under a master mechanic on my first job, turning wrenches. He advised me to stay away from the high-performance stuff, it will only cause you pain if the customer blows a job up, due to his reckless operation. I pretty much followed that advice in the sixteen years I worked in the trade. So learning about this particular aspect of engine building never came up. I have a 78' 440 that has low miles and needs freshening up. I want a non-stock cam, flat tappet as this is a budget build. I want just a step above stock, that sounds good and gives me some performance, but don't eat a lot of gas. This is just a toy for me, nothing serious. I posted the Jeggs catalog page below. Please advise me.

Thanks

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...29822&storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1

 

[Kern Dog]

I ran a Mopar Performance 280/474 cam in my first 440. That engine idled great with a slight lope and the car hauled ***. For basically a stock 9.0 440, it went 14.01 at 100 with a sad 2.20 60 foot time in my 70 Charger. I am not a drag racer by any stretch.

 

[polywideblock]

comp 268H great idle ( bit of a lope ) tons of low down grunt

 

[rumblefish360]

This is what I would do for a first cam into the HP field. It will work with 3.23 and up gears easy. A cam of this size is often considered a first step upgrade and/or a upgraded 4bbl. cam.
Also the factory Road Runner cam is also a good unit. Crane Cams ( http://www.cranecams.com/170-173.pdf ) has a blue printed copy of that cam and the H272-2 cam is very similar to
It with more rpm in the cam. I have had very good results with the 272 in my small blocks.

http://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/CL21-215-4/10002/-1?ymm=4294829822+4294829029+4294828997
COMP Cams CL21-215-4
268/268 (@.050 is 218@.050)

Crane Cams has a blue printed copy of the

 

[71Beeper]

Have a look over on the Hughes engines website.
They only specialize in Mopar engines.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/index.php

 

[747mopar]

Agreed, I'm running a Comp 268 in my 456 stroker and really like it. I'm running their solid lift cam instead of hyd and would never go back, seams to need very little adjustments and is very quite (as far as tapping). It's a very well rounded cam for the street but a noticeable idle and strong acceleration in the midrange. I chose this particular cam because of my 6 speed tranny with a .5 6th gear, it has to be happy cruising in the 2,000 rpm range give or take a few. Had I been running a 727 with my 3:55s I likely would have went another step up but love it the way it is. Nothing but rubber threw 1st and 2nd and a hard pull all the way to 6,000 rpm.

 

[727]

When you say freshen up does that include new Pistons with a respectable compression ratio 9.0-9.5)?
If you're sticking with 1978 low compression Pistons your cam choice will be limited! You can search out a set of closed chamber heads and use .020 head shim gaskets to get you up about 1 point of compression over open chambers with regular .040" head gaskets.

The mopar purple 6 pack cam will work with the lower compression, but all the purple cams are expensive! If you're thrifty summit has K6400 (not really performance) and K6401( suggest 9.5 compression). Tough to beat the price at $117.00 for cam and lifters. I have run a Hughes cam and it delivered what they promised. If you use their springs and adjustable rockers as suggested and have a machine shop set the spring height on your heads, it gets spendy.
Some cams require headers, gears, a better intake, and a loose converter? Keep in mind you may need new valve springs or adjustable rockers. So there can be extra cost involved there.

My suggestions is to ask as many questions as possible. Have defined goals and a defined budget. Don't get hung up on HP #'s. Ask yourself, what will the car be used for. 3500 stall with 410 gears isn't fun on a daily driver. If you don't have to be the fastest kid on the block then a 440 in relative stock form is lots of fun. There are some smart guys on this site that have tried every cam available. It's very cost effective to learn from their experiences. Keep us updated on your choice.

 

[Torkmnstr]

I ran an isky mega cam 280 in my slightly warmed over 440. It had a 108 centerline and was a great cam. Fast issue with just the right amount of lope. I second converter oand gears will predicate what can you should really run and all those specs are in the cam descriptions. I have a 2500 and 3.91 gears and it pulled like a freight train!

 

[Auggie56]

When you say freshen up does that include new Pistons with a respectable compression ratio 9.0-9.5)?
If you're sticking with 1978 low compression Pistons your cam choice will be limited! You can search out a set of closed chamber heads and use .020 head shim gaskets to get you up about 1 point of compression over open chambers with regular .040" head gaskets.

The mopar purple 6 pack cam will work with the lower compression, but all the purple cams are expensive! If you're thrifty summit has K6400 (not really performance) and K6401( suggest 9.5 compression). Tough to beat the price at $117.00 for cam and lifters. I have run a Hughes cam and it delivered what they promised. If you use their springs and adjustable rockers as suggested and have a machine shop set the spring height on your heads, it gets spendy.
Some cams require headers, gears, a better intake, and a loose converter? Keep in mind you may need new valve springs or adjustable rockers. So there can be extra cost involved there.

My suggestions is to ask as many questions as possible. Have defined goals and a defined budget. Don't get hung up on HP #'s. Ask yourself, what will the car be used for. 3500 stall with 410 gears isn't fun on a daily driver. If you don't have to be the fastest kid on the block then a 440 in relative stock form is lots of fun. There are some smart guys on this site that have tried every cam available. It's very cost effective to learn from their experiences. Keep us updated on your choice.

This engine came out of a motor home chassis. The owner said 25K on the odometer. With no ring ridge on the cylinder walls, I'd have to believe what he told me. This is a budget rebuild, I just can't go new pistons. I inspected the spark plugs, valves, and ring lands and there was no evidence of oil burning. So I'm relatively sure there is no ring/valve stem leakage. I'm replacing all the bearings and reconditioning the heads. I don't know if there is any room, to shave the heads at all, with the flat top pistons, to increase compression. I'm told these heads are good considering it's a smog engine. I'm going to run a stock converter with a 3:23 rear axle. As far as intake, I bought a 67' dated intake. My goal is to keep the 67' appearance as it would have been from the factory.
Someone mentioned buying a stock 69' RR 440 cam. Where is one even available ? All the after market ones show it's application to all big block engines, from 361 to 440. This kinda surprised me, as I would have expected a more aggressive cam as the performance and cubes increased.

Thanks

 

[Torkmnstr]

I believe lunati makes the thumper cams which have the retro stock grinds.

 

[Yatzee]

I worked under a master mechanic on my first job, turning wrenches. He advised me to stay away from the high-performance stuff, it will only cause you pain if the customer blows a job up, due to his reckless operation. I pretty much followed that advice in the sixteen years I worked in the trade. So learning about this particular aspect of engine building never came up. I have a 78' 440 that has low miles and needs freshening up. I want a non-stock cam, flat tappet as this is a budget build. I want just a step above stock, that sounds good and gives me some performance, but don't eat a lot of gas. This is just a toy for me, nothing serious. I posted the Jeggs catalog page below. Please advise me.

Thanks

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...29822&storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1

You are one of many people who want a bit more grunt out of their car but the last thing they think of, that can really take the dog out of a car is the torque convertor. No sense beefing up an engine if the slip at the convertor is not remedied. Once a dog, always a dog with a 2400 stall convertor. And you know why people never look at this item? Price. A good convertor custom made to your car's specs can run $600 to $800 but once you do it you'll be highly educated and pleasantly pleased. You not only "up" your power transfer to the pavement, you also increase mileage once you rid yourself of wasted slip. Even a dog can be made to perform much better with this investment and it's there for future upgrades. It was a "day to night" difference when I finally drooped my factory convertor off at the scrap yard and installed a 3400 stall. I was so impressed I couldn't even imagine asking $10 for the OE piece of crap.

 

[69a100]

Remember Steve Dulcich, the Mopar guru?
He wrote a article when he was at Mopar Muscle about cams long time ago. He said.
"Take the specs of a stock cam, add no more then 10% to the duration, and no more then .050" lift from stock, and you will be build a mean street machine that can use the stock converter!
With that info, I used the Hughes 2330 cam and I couldn't be happier in my stock 383. In my 66-300, I did lose a little low end grunt, but I can't get a burn out either way, but from 30 mph and up, the things a monster! That grind is no longer made, I think it's now the 2228 which Cr8crshr's is running in his 383, and his sounds just as cool as mine. Good Luck

 

[727]

On a near stock engine I Would choose a factory 10-3/4" converter any day over a factory 11-3/4". They are still around and much cheaper than a custom stall. Will need the corresponding flex plate with either vert.

 

[PRND21]

I would call Hughes, Comp, Isky, Engle, etc., tell them your exact combination and intended use, ask their recommendations. They want their customers to be satisfied, they don't want bad reviews. To save money look for similar grinds from Summit or Jegs or... I would caution you on buying cheap hydraulic lifters, some of them are complete JUNK! Maybe think about a mild solid lifter cam, really very little maintenance. Remember that with a stock convertor, stock gears, stock heads, stock compression ratio, stock intake, stock exhaust, you can wind up with a REAL DOG with the wrong cam. Probably everybody here has overcammed an engine when they were young and stupid, I know I have. The results really suck. Good luck.

 

[oldbee]

Auggie it's a slippery slope that tilts very quickly. Don't go crazy, everything has to work together.

 

[69a100]

Auggie it's a slippery slope that tilts very quickly. Don't go crazy, everything has to work together.

In other words, if your stuck on a couple of cams, choose the smaller of the 2, you'll be a lot happier.

 

[oldbee]

BUT it won't sound near as good! Lol

 

[Auggie56]

You are one of many people who want a bit more grunt out of their car but the last thing they think of, that can really take the dog out of a car is the torque convertor. No sense beefing up an engine if the slip at the convertor is not remedied. Once a dog, always a dog with a 2400 stall convertor. And you know why people never look at this item? Price. A good convertor custom made to your car's specs can run $600 to $800 but once you do it you'll be highly educated and pleasantly pleased. You not only "up" your power transfer to the pavement, you also increase mileage once you rid yourself of wasted slip. Even a dog can be made to perform much better with this investment and it's there for future upgrades. It was a "day to night" difference when I finally drooped my factory convertor off at the scrap yard and installed a 3400 stall. I was so impressed I couldn't even imagine asking $10 for the OE piece of crap.

I read an article last year, about the difference between a stock and a custom one with more stall. He recommended not to use the custom one unless you were going an all out performance build. And that driving one on a daily driver would be a problem. But like I say, that was this author take on it.

Thanks

Am I thinking more HP higher stall if I recall it right. Per a chart, in another forum, this engine is rated at 230 HP. Would that even be a good idea to put a higher stall unit in at that low of HP?

Here is a write up on converters.
http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=78/prd78.htm

 

[oldbee]

Just listen/think about what's already been said. Bigger cam- need bigger carb,heads,exhaust(to get it out),diff gears ( to hit new sweet spot),converter,etc.etc.

 

[oldbee]

Can't remember ur build but a rated stall speed on a conv. will be higher with a BB than a SB.