Big block pulley sets with A/C and P/S Pictures anyone?

[Kern Dog]

Thanks... A PM would have worked sooner for you!
I didn't like the look of the 4 belt setup that the factory used with the A/C and P/S applications. To me it looks too cluttered and busy so I juggled a few things around to try to make a 3 groove crank pulley and 3 belt system work. I think that I have it figured out.
3 groove crank pulley uses 2 belts for the crank, alternator and A/C compressor. One belt uses the furthest forward crank pulley groove then around the water pump and power steering pump. I have mocked it up on a spare 440 but have not swapped it all over to my car yet. Alignment seems pretty close, I may need to shim to get it all just right.
I have a bunch of 4 groove crank pulleys for A/C and P/S, a couple of A/C WP pulleys, a few Idler brackets and pulleys too. PM me and I might be able to put together a package for you for a fair price!

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Thanks kern! I honestly forgot about PM haha

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

For everyone else, what side is your drier that hangs off the condenser mounted on - passenger or driver side? Seems most I see available pre-mounted are on passenger side but I thought a driver side mount may be better because in photos I’ve seen it looks like the 68-69 b bodies top mounted compressor is also off center towards the drivers side. Am I correct?

 

[Kern Dog]

Dwayne got me thinking again about this conversion. I still want to do it with three belts instead of four.
Here is the mock up with the 5 1/4" 2 groove water pump pulleys.

The grooves align but the forward groove is not used. It will work but is not optimal.

 

[Kern Dog]

I found another pulley, this one is a single groove.

To get the groove to line up, it needs to be spaced forward about 1/4"

This would be a perfect pulley except.....

It leaves the water pump snout flush with the edge of the pulley. I'm guessing that the fan clutch really needs the nub to be properly centered.
As seen in that picture, the water pump pulley is spaced forward using a stack of washers JUST for the mock up.

 

[Kern Dog]

I took a couple of otherwise worthless pulleys and cut the centers out.

If I were to use this pulley, I'd machine down the edges of the centers and use them as spacers.

I guess there are a few ways to go here. Either I can hone out the pilot hole in the pulley and use a sleeve of some sort to center the fan clutch.....OR I can keep looking for a single groove, 5 1/4" pulley that measures 1 7/8" from face to the back.

 

[Kern Dog]

Mancini has THIS pulley, supposed to fit Street Hemis but no sizes are listed.
https://www.manciniracing.com/oehewapupu.html

It looks right but being off even a scant 1/4" is enough to kibosh the deal. Who wants to pay $150 plus shipping to be wrong?

I guess I'll call tomorrow.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

For everyone else, what side is your drier that hangs off the condenser mounted on - passenger or driver side? Seems most I see available pre-mounted are on passenger side but I thought a driver side mount may be better because in photos I’ve seen it looks like the 68-69 b bodies top mounted compressor is also off center towards the drivers side. Am I correct?

Can anyone chime in on this original question I had? The condenser connects to the firewall side correct? That’s the same said as my 727 trans cooler lines and it’s getting congested on the passenger side. Was thinking about a driver side drier mount off the condenser instead. I haven’t ordered the condenser with pre mounted drier yet but they can be ordered either way.

 

[Brendan]

Hi, I can confirm that the 4 belt is needed to stop belt slip on water pump pulley. I have an A/c car but when i purchased it not connected to a/c. it was running alternator on one groove third on crank pulley ( which works fine). original small front pulley single from crank to water pump to powersteering. ( hardly any contact because of the large crank pulley then the positioning of the power steering pulley higher. All day long slips. even with the clutch fan removed and having it done up with so much tension it would almost crush bearings still slips bad. I contemplated a larger diameter pulley for the water pump but then once spaced forward reduces the clutch to radiator distance then you need a smaller ( chev) clutch length.

In my opinion go the tension pulley ( which i belive is only there to take up the belt length slack not aiding in slippage. But because it goes straight back to the crank it has enough surface contact not to slip. the power steer pump runs on the second groove. alternator on the third. and when you choose to install a/c the brackets all allready there you just get longer ac belts for pulley 3 and 4.

My boring opinion. ( your current setup it will be under load looking at the picture clockwise and lift from the water pump pulley. then the power steer will lift the water pump pulley again. causing all sorts of headaches and terrible sounds.

 

[Kern Dog]

Can anyone chime in on this original question I had? The condenser connects to the firewall side correct? That’s the same said as my 727 trans cooler lines and it’s getting congested on the passenger side. Was thinking about a driver side drier mount off the condenser instead. I haven’t ordered the condenser with pre mounted drier yet but they can be ordered either way.

Yes, the condenser is on the front of the core support.
I started cutting up that Polara and the condenser was on the forward side and this car is HUGE.

 

[Kern Dog]

Hi, I can confirm that the 4 belt is needed to stop belt slip on water pump pulley.

In my opinion go the tension pulley.

I have an intact 4 belt setup on a 383 from a 1970 Dodge Polara that I may use. I do like to do things the factory way when I can and I was under the impression that this 4 belt arrangement looked too cluttered and busy, as if they could have made it work with 3 belts. Maybe....the factory DID try and after detecting excessive slip, they went with the 4 belt arrangement?

 

[Brendan]

I have an intact 4 belt setup on a 383 from a 1970 Dodge Polara that I may use. I do like to do things the factory way when I can and I was under the impression that this 4 belt arrangement looked too cluttered and busy, as if they could have made it work with 3 belts. Maybe....the factory DID try and after detecting excessive slip, they went with the 4 belt arrangement?

Only way i can see is a larger water pump pulley and the mount the powersteering pulley really low so you pick up as much contact area as you can on the fan pulley to stop slip. Alot of work compared to two bolts to hold on the tensioner.

 

[Kern Dog]

This is similar to how I had it planned. The belt has about 90 degrees of contact on the water pump pulley. My thinking was that in a NON A/C setup like what I have in the car now, the same amount of belt contact exists with the crank, alt and water pump on the same belt.

 

[Kern Dog]

Mancini has THIS pulley, supposed to fit Street Hemis but no sizes are listed.
https://www.manciniracing.com/oehewapupu.html

It looks right but being off even a scant 1/4" is enough to kibosh the deal. Who wants to pay $150 plus shipping to be wrong?
View attachment 771385
I guess I'll call tomorrow.

I called Mancini on that pulley and the clerk was rude. First, he answered the call like he was annoyed to have to take a call. When I asked about the actual measurements, he said..."Well, I'd have to go pull one from stock and measure it". REALLY ? You think I want to spend $150 plus tax and shipping just for the heck of it?
The guy at Bouchillon was great though. He said that he preferred to NOT experiment with unknown combinations because "It always goes bad" for them." He didn't want to risk an unhappy customer so he just tried suggesting other combinations.
Well, as polite as he was, I think that he was wrong. Sometimes experimenting like this results in a good surprise where things just work out great. What kind of crappy world would we have if nobody ever tried to do anything a bit different?

 

[Kern Dog]

It looks to me that even with the 4 belt setup and the tensioner/idler, the water pump only has a little more than 90 degrees of belt contact. Maybe this works because the belt is ONLY driving the water pump?
I wonder if the drag of both the water pump and power steering pump lead to slippage?
Again, I can configure it either way. At least I have two different sets of pulleys to experiment with.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Don’t waste your time on the three-belt config, it will slip. Been there, done that.
With the three-belt config, I suspect the slippage is at the crank pulley. The combined load of both the PS pump and the water pump riding a single pulley grove with only 110 degrees or so of belt contact. With the original four-belt set-up, each has its own crank pulley grove and quite a bit more contact area. Learned long ago, the factory never went to any additional design effort or expense that didn’t have a specific purpose.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Yes, the condenser is on the front of the core support.
I started cutting up that Polara and the condenser was on the forward side and this car is HUGE.

Thanks Greg. I was actually asking about a preference for which side of the condenser to mount the drier on - passenger or driver side

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Don’t waste your time on the three-belt config, it will slip. Been there, done that.
With the three-belt config, I suspect the slippage is at the crank pulley. The combined load of both the PS pump and the water pump riding a single pulley grove with only 110 degrees or so of belt contact. With the original four-belt set-up, each has its own crank pulley grove and quite a bit more contact area. Learned long ago, the factory never went to any additional design effort or expense that didn’t have a specific purpose.


View attachment 776299
View attachment 776302

Those are great photos! So with this setup, no slip for you? Since I'm just now doing this setup, would you mind listing out so I'm clear on what pulleys share belts? I can make out in the photo that the power steering pump and water pump share a belt, correct? I can't see the idler tensioner pulley/bracket location that clearly - kind of looks like it's pointing downward. I'm still looking to source one of those..

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

by the way, 72RRgtx, where did you buy those Matchmaker belts? If they don't squeal, I want to buy some...

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

by the way, 72RRgtx, where did you buy those Matchmaker belts? If they don't squeal, I want to buy some...

To be clear, the first shot above is my attempt to run a three-belt big block A/C configuration, as discussed here. It did NOT work for me, belt slipped. Second shot is the same motor running the factory designed 4-belt config, no more slippage.

Here are some more pics of my other big-block A/C installation, better angles.

Goodyear belts were sourced from O'Reilly's, they are cogged belt design but was not enough to stop slippage when the PS pump and water pump were on the same belt.