Engine Rebuild - Constructive Criticism Required

[The Flying Scot]

I had my 1978 440 engine rebuilt here in the UK in 2019.
Some concerns have been raised in a previous thread regarding the spec.
I’d really appreciate further input as to whether my chosen engineers have made errors in the build. Please see the photos for details.
I’m new to the whole “forums” scene so thanks in advance.
Very much appreciated.

 

[493 Mike]

With the small cam and iron cylinder heads and your compression ratio I believe you have created the perfect conditions for detonation. I see you want to run unleaded fuel. Can you get 100 octane unleaded in Scotland?
Mike

 

[Bee1971]

In that other thread , we where trying to help you out with stamped steel rocker arm issues

Then the thread went in another direction

First off your camshaft specs are wrong

You mentioned - It’s a Comp Cams Kit K21-227-4
It was pointed out as the Comp XE275 HL - Those specs are
275/287 - .525 .525

Did they degree the cam ?


Then the bigger question was the static compression and your head cc
Are they in fact 78cc or 88cc



Where in fact the heads milled ? That’s the big question
You need to ask the machine shop if the heads where in fact just resurfaced or cut and milled

Because if they where cut and milled , that might explain the pushrod / rocker arm issue
And you did state the pushrods where replaced twice with different lengths in the other thread


Just because your having rocker arm issues doesn’t necessarily mean that the rest of the build

 

[Nate S]

Assuming everything there is correct and measured you’ve got way too much compression for anything other than race gas. Should be a torque monster with that many cubic inches and that fairly ordinary cam.

 

[The Flying Scot]

With the small cam and iron cylinder heads and your compression ratio I believe you have created the perfect conditions for detonation. I see you want to run unleaded fuel. Can you get 100 octane unleaded in Scotland?
Mike

Thanks Mike. I can get 99 octane from the pump here.

 

[BSB67]

We seem to be in a bit of a do-loop.

Like Bee1971 suggests, there are questions regarding the info that has been supplied. Therefore we cannot speak with confidance as to the appropriateness of the build. I think you need to first verify the info that you've posted by doing a deeper dive on all of the documents/information supplied from the builder, doubling back with your builder, and/or pulling the cylinder heads off the motor.

Was there a bill of materials? Was there an invoice/bill? Where did your first list of specs (bore, stroke, gasket thickness....) come from? Was that from the builder himself, or info that has been transposed from another source?

- The description states that the heads were milled on a Rottler to even the chambers, but does not state how much.
- 0.048 gasket thickness seems like an uncommon thickness, Is there a supplier or part number?
- Who is the pistion, rod, crank source?

Now that I've reflected on what I've typed, I 've concluded that you need to pull the heads.

 

[The Flying Scot]

We seem to be in a bit of a do-loop.

Like Bee1971 suggests, there are questions regarding the info that has been supplied. Therefore we cannot speak with confidance as to the appropriateness of the build. I think you need to first verify the info that you've posted by doing a deeper dive on all of the documents/information supplied from the builder, doubling back with your builder, and/or pulling the cylinder heads off the motor.

Was there a bill of materials? Was there an invoice/bill? Where did your first list of specs (bore, stroke, gasket thickness....) come from? Was that from the builder himself, or info that has been transposed from another source?

- The description states that the heads were milled on a Rottler to even the chambers, but does not state how much.
- 0.048 gasket thickness seems like an uncommon thickness, Is there a supplier or part number?
- Who is the pistion, rod, crank source?

Now that I've reflected on what I've typed, I 've concluded that you need to pull the heads.

Thanks fir this. All the information in the photos came directly from the engine builder. The two photos with green bars showing are cropped from the actual invoices.
This build cost me the U.K. equivalent of $30,000 which is why I’m somewhat nervous that errors in the build may have been made.
I’ll be talking to the engineer next week which is why I’m trying to obtain information and advice from people who are experts on here.
Thanks.

 

[padam]

They did do a lot of typing.

 

[65Fury440]

U.K. equivalent of $30,000

So are you saying 30,000 lbs=
30,000 Pound sterling equals
40,840.47 United States Dollar?

Oof..... no double oof.
You should have an aftermarket block, aluminum head, pro stock monster for that much.
Best of luck.

 

[PRHeads]

Without knowing how the conversation went about what your hopes and goals were for the engine, it’s tough to say if there were “mistakes” made with the combo or not.

I would think the first step in getting things rectified would be to bring up your misgivings to the shop that built it, and see what they have to say.

My opinion is the CR is too high for what it sounds like the intended use is..... so, who ever gave the 11:1+CR the green light is where I’d be pointing the finger.

Frankly, if the thing had 9.5:1, it would be fine........ other than the failing rockers.

 

[cdr]

9.7 CR has done very well for my street car 512cid

 

[The Flying Scot]

So are you saying 30,000 lbs=
30,000 Pound sterling equals
40,840.47 United States Dollar?

Oof..... no double oof.
You should have an aftermarket block, aluminum head, pro stock monster for that much.
Best of luck.

It was around £21,000 UK £s. I should certainly have a fully functioning, decent spec Charger…but hey…

 

[The Flying Scot]

They did do a lot of typing.

 

[The Flying Scot]

Without knowing how the conversation went about what your hopes and goals were for the engine, it’s tough to say if there were “mistakes” made with the combo or not.

I would think the first step in getting things rectified would be to bring up your misgivings to the shop that built it, and see what they have to say.

My opinion is the CR is too high for what it sounds like the intended use is..... so, who ever gave the 11:1+CR the green light is where I’d be pointing the finger.

Frankly, if the thing had 9.5:1, it would be fine........ other than the failing rockers.

The instructions I gave the builder was to build it exactly as a ‘68 R/T or maybe a little bit better. Simple as that. It was never meant to be a rocket ship or flying machine. Just a good, solid ‘68 R/T with all new components.

 

[PRHeads]

Sounds like they didn’t listen to your request then, and built what they wanted to build.
(On the other hand, without a clear directive to adhere to...... it was somewhat left to them to interpret what a “little hotter” than stock is.)

That combo strays pretty far from a stock 440.

In any case, there are countless ways to proceed from here(or not proceed).
I’d get with whoever is going to do the work and be very clear on what your expectations are and where you want to end up.
Have it written down what the plan for moving forward is.

 

[The Flying Scot]

Sounds like they didn’t listen to your request then, and built what they wanted to build.
(On the other hand, without a clear directive to adhere to...... it was somewhat left to them to interpret what a “little hotter” than stock is.)

That combo strays pretty far from a stock 440.

In any case, there are countless ways to proceed from here(or not proceed).
I’d get with whoever is going to do the work and be very clear on what your expectations are and where you want to end up.
Have it written down what the plan for moving forward is.

I made it Crystal clear what I wanted them to do. Clear and indeed simple. I think they might have become over excited at doing their first ever Charger. That said, they have a very good reputation for classic British restorations such as Jaguar, Lotus etc and I believe they look after several old Cadillacs for clients…and they race a 65 Mustang on the UK circuit.

 

[PRHeads]

Sounds like a face to face with the builder is in order.

 

[The Flying Scot]

Sounds like a face to face with the builder is in order.

Yes. I know the guy pretty well now and we’re due to speak next week. He knows I’m pretty pissed off about all this. I expected a good, solid motor for my $30,000.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Did you supply the basic parts? For the price I hope he supplied everything!! For $30 you might get a Hemi here.

 

[The Flying Scot]

Did you supply the basic parts? For the price I hope he supplied everything!! For $30 you might get a Hemi here.

He sourced and supplied everything. The problem we have in the UK is that by the time the parts arrive with shipping and taxes paid, what costs you guys stateside $1,000 can cost us close to $1500. It’s worth it though!