Engine build specs?

[68Satellite440]

Was wondering if there is a ongoing thread on here and i just cant find it of other guys engine builds, a place where you post your engine details, all added performance parts, and results of hp/tq?
Im curious how other guys have built their 440s and what results were.
I feel like it would be really helpful to new guys and guys trying a build on a motor they haven’t built before.
My biggest curiosity is Valve train/Cam combos.
Ive seen a few guys keeping stamped rockers with cams with over .500 lift. Good idea? Bad idea? What is the next step upgrade from stamped rockers? Roller tip?
Thanks ahead of time!

 

[Sahara]

You can keep stamped rockers up to around .525, according to Ehrenberg. I believe him.

 

[RemCharger]

Wouldn't hurt to read the Mopar performance big block book.
Then you'll have some background when asking the technical stuff.

 

[6PKRTSE]

You can keep stamped rockers up to around .525, according to Ehrenberg. I believe him.

I have been running a .549/.541 w/.292/.300 duration in one of my 440's since 2007 with the Original OEM stamped rockers with over 55,000+ miles on it so far. Of course, not easy miles either as it flogged on whenever driven.

 

[slepr1]

I've built a few 440's in my lifetime and best piece of advise I can give is save up the cash and do it right the first time. My last build I finally went with Hughes 1.5 rockers and Hughes cam, Edelbrock aluminum heads, aluminum rods, 10.5 compression and I'm finally happy with the outcome of 500hp. Hughes has been a great help.

 

[68Satellite440]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the feedback. Every little bit helps. Im looking at some barely over .500 lift cams and just want all the opinions i can get from other builders.

 

[440 PHIXX]

A lot of “misinformation”... or is it “disinformation”? In the DC now Mopar manuals. Six Pack rods, that were in every 440 HP. ‘76-‘78 thin wall blocks... a few others I forgot.

 

[RemCharger]

A lot of “misinformation”... or is it “disinformation”? In the DC now Mopar manuals. Six Pack rods, that were in every 440 HP. ‘76-‘78 thin wall blocks... a few others I forgot.

Read book first
Discuss mis information later.
Fixed?

 

[68Satellite440]

A lot of “misinformation”... or is it “disinformation”? In the DC now Mopar manuals. Six Pack rods, that were in every 440 HP. ‘76-‘78 thin wall blocks... a few others I forgot.

Ive got a ‘68 HP motor. So trying to get an idea by seeing how other people upgraded theirs and what power they made after. Im planning a mild build. Just something a little quicker on the red lights around town

 

[440 PHIXX]

Read book first
Discuss mis information later.
Fixed?

Problem was... we didn’t know it. I passed on many ‘76-‘78 New Yorkers that could have been had for under $100 with running 440’s. I knew they had a cast crankshaft, but the “Bible” said they were only good for a .02 overbore. All the pistons I saw were .03. Turns out they were the best 440 blocks produced. They all had the figure 8 cooling passages and the beefier motor mount ears.

 

[68Satellite440]

I've built a few 440's in my lifetime and best piece of advise I can give is save up the cash and do it right the first time. My last build I finally went with Hughes 1.5 rockers and Hughes cam, Edelbrock aluminum heads, aluminum rods, 10.5 compression and I'm finally happy with the outcome of 500hp. Hughes has been a great help.

Im hoping to get into the 400+hp at the wheels. Nothing too extreme. Just freshen up the motor.
-port 906s
-Been comparing Voodoo 703 and hughes 2024BL-11.
Just seeing what all i need to upgrade, or if im gonna overcam by accident.
-already have Long tube headers
-looking at the AVS2 800cfm

 

[440 PHIXX]

I’d go with aftermarket aluminum heads. The 906’s were OK in the 80’s when nothing else was available. You’re dropping weight off of the front of the car, and all the newer heads flow as good or better than ported 906’s will. An added benefit is you can run higher compression with the aluminum heads.

 

[68Satellite440]

I’d go with aftermarket aluminum heads. The 906’s were OK in the 80’s when nothing else was available. You’re dropping weight off of the front of the car, and all the newer heads flow as good or better than ported 906’s will. An added benefit is you can run higher compression with the aluminum heads.

Do you have a brand preference? Or ones to avoid?
If I buy heads, should I have block decked to make sure its straight? Or is that not necessary?
Not many engine building machine around my part of Oklahoma. Mostly oilfield stuff only.

 

[440 PHIXX]

Do you have a brand preference? Or ones to avoid?
If I buy heads, should I have block decked to make sure its straight? Or is that not necessary?
Not many engine building machine around my part of Oklahoma. Mostly oilfield stuff only.

You can’t go wrong with the Edelbrocks. I’ve heard good things about the 440 Source heads as well, although they are probably made in china. You can check the deck with a straight edge and a .003 feeler gauge. It’ll be fine if it’s within .003, if you use a Fel-Pro gasket.

 

[Budnicks]

Check out many of the 'post your 10-11-12 second or better combos'
or even as fast as the '9 second or better combos'
up-top here
in the Racers Hangout, lots of great combos info

Edelbrocks 'Out of the box' flow 40+cfm better than the Stealth's
of equal std or MW port size
the Stealth's look a lot more like a stock head, has a 78cc Combustion chamber IIRC
& have straight sparkplugs, about 250cfm flow at .600" gross valve lift
yeah they are cheaper (then Edelbrocks) & they are cast in CHINA
& finished here, not bad for entry level stuff, can make decent power
But, you pay extra for everything on them, better valves, better springs etc.

IMO the best bang for the $$$ is Edlebrock RPM
(or E-street & do some parts swaps)
has either 210cc intakes, 75cc, 84cc, 88cc combustion chambers, closed (lesser cc's)
or open chambers
the Edelbrocks have an angle plug 14mm x .750" thread
they don't look like a stock cast iron head if you don't care about that
I prefer performance & quality over looking like it was 1969
depends on what kind of build
the extra 40cfm of flow at up-to 290cfm @ 0.600" gross valve lift (RPM & E-Street)
or more, better valves, bigger vlaves, better springs, better parts, all USA sourced
depending on what heads, what camshaft you run etc.
is well worth the extra starting costs, buy Edlebrock
you'll me $$ a head in the long run

(you can always port them if you need even more, you can get 600hp
with the right combo, for your build &/or with bolt on parts & a decent bottom end)

unless you are looking for a stock-ish looking cast head
or all out race heads
AFR Air Flow Research has some great heads, 240cc intakes
or bigger 270cc intakes (MW port), for bigger cid builds
also 2 times the price of Edelbrock RPM's
or 3-4 time as much as Stealth's
but you get far more for your money too

there's plenty of them out there

INDY Cylinder Head sells quite a few
at near 2-3-4-5 times the cost of Edelbrocks,
4-5-6 times the cost of Stealth's (depending on what you want)
&
if you are serious about making HP
doing a serious race engine or serious Street/Strip build,
cylinder heads, especially aluminum heads make a world of difference
in heat dissipation & far less weight, win win

ditch the cast iron 50+ y/o heads & step up
you will be money ahead of the game

 

[68Satellite440]

Check out many of the 'post your 10-11-12 second or better combos'
or even as fast as the '9 second or better combos'
up-top here
in the Racers Hangout, lots of great combos info

Edelbrocks 'Out of the box' flow 40+cfm better than the Stealth's
of equal std or MW port size
the Stealth's look a lot more like a stock head, has a 78cc Combustion chamber IIRC
& have straight sparkplugs, about 250cfm flow at .600" gross valve lift
yeah they are cheaper (then Edelbrocks) & they are cast in CHINA
& finished here, not bad for entry level stuff, can make decent power
But, you pay extra for everything on them, better valves, better springs etc.

IMO the best bang for the $$$ is Edlebrock RPM
(or E-street & do some parts swaps)
has either 210cc intakes, 75cc, 84cc, 88cc combustion chambers, closed (lesser cc's)
or open chambers
the Edelbrocks have an angle plug 14mm x .750" thread
they don't look like a stock cast iron head if you don't care about that
I prefer performance & quality over looking like it was 1969
depends on what kind of build
the extra 40cfm of flow at up-to 290cfm @ 0.600" gross valve lift (RPM & E-Street)
or more, better valves, bigger vlaves, better springs, better parts, all USA sourced
depending on what heads, what camshaft you run etc.
is well worth the extra starting costs, buy Edlebrock
you'll me $$ a head in the long run

(you can always port them if you need even more, you can get 600hp
with the right combo, for your build &/or with bolt on parts & a decent bottom end)

unless you are looking for a stock-ish looking cast head
or all out race heads
AFR Air Flow Research has some great heads, 240cc intakes
or bigger 270cc intakes (MW port), for bigger cid builds
also 2 times the price of Edelbrock RPM's
or 3-4 time as much as Stealth's
but you get far more for your money too

there's plenty of them out there

INDY Cylinder Head sells quite a few
at near 2-3-4-5 times the cost of Edelbrocks,
4-5-6 times the cost of Stealth's (depending on what you want)
&
if you are serious about making HP
doing a serious race engine or serious Street/Strip build,
cylinder heads, especially aluminum heads make a world of difference
in heat dissipation & far less weight, win win

ditch the cast iron 50+ y/o heads & step up
you will be money ahead of the game

okay so i have a couple questions on that.
Which one is compatible with my stock internals? I see that some require quench dome pistons.
The lunati voodoo cam and hughes cams im comparing are near .490-.500 lift. Just a mild upgrade from stock.
I couldn’t find a comparison of the E-street vs RPM to know which one I would need.
Is the provided edelbrock valve train good enough or would i need to swap out with whatever Cam company i choose?
It says springs and valves included so i choose my own lifters, rods, and rockers?

 

[Budnicks]

Lots of variables there
you can run a Fel-Pro 0.039" compressed head-gasket,
with stainless ring around the comb. chamber gasket area
to get the the required 0.040" of quench
(some don't think that's as necessary as others, differing opinions)
with a near zero deck flat top,
if your current piston/s are down in the hole,
which more than likely they are
unless the block has been decked or you have ordered custom pistons
it depends on what pistons
& what it's compression-hieght
(where the pin is located, in the piston, in relation to the 'top flat'
or quench area of the piston)
that you have or you will ultimately choose

choose wisely !!

You need to talk to an engine builder,
I'm a racer & yes I do build most all my own stuff too
I'm not the machinist,
I just know what works for me & what I like
& what I have done
what I do & can deal with...
That maybe something completely different
than your wishes or your builders choices
go with what they recommend

don't build by committee, pick a style or a builder & stay on course

I can steer you some but won't walk you thru ever aspect
you need to do some due diligence & research
all the info is out there or on here

you can go with thinner head gaskets, still have plenty of quench area
thinner head gaskets & smaller combustion chambers for more compression
to help keep the compression up
when you order the head, you can choose what style head assoc.
of the style of camshaft, you are using for the valvetrain components

E-street Edelbrock is the bargain version of a Edelbrock alum. head
has the same ports as the RPM, same flow relatively
but slightly cheaper/lesser quality valves & springs & retainers

sort of meant for bolt on lower compression combo & go

the combustion chamber is sized for what style of piston
(down in to hole {how much}, a zero deck or +cc domes
(Depends on how much & where the flat quench are is related to compression height)
& compression you have or will want,
smaller cc chambers, smaller opening in the head gaskest, also
with raise the compression some

the bigger 84cc Closed chambers RPM's (or E-street)
& 88cc open chambers on the RPM
(not sure I'd have to look if it's avail. on E-street)
won't bump up the compression as much
actually
I think you can get a 75 (?) or 78cc (?) in the RPM's now too
go to their site & look it spells it all out

with that cam, IMO either would work fine
don't think you'd have any valve to piston clearance issues
as long as that camshaft was NOT ground way retarded or way advanced
even then I don't think you have any real issues
you could use mostly stock-ish components, push rods, rockers etc.
with lil' to NO clearance issues, anywhere

you're not building a huge hp or something with
ultra-high compression or high lift (cam) combo

you really need to get a builder
&/or go to the products site, Edelbrock or 440source
& 'read' the information about their products
of all the ones I touched on

&/or do some searches here,
use the search option at the top right of the page
there's literally 1,000+ threads about cylinder heads
or camshafts for that matter

good luck
another wall of text

 

[68Satellite440]

Lots of variables there
you can run a Fel-Pro 0.039" compressed head-gasket,
with stainless ring around the comb. chamber gasket area
to get the the required 0.040" of quench
(some don't think that's as necessary as others, differing opinions)
with a near zero deck flat top,
if your current piston/s are down in the hole,
which more than likely they are
unless the block has been decked or you have ordered custom pistons
it depends on what pistons
& what it's compression-hieght
(where the pin is located, in the piston, in relation to the 'top flat'
or quench area of the piston)
that you have or you will ultimately choose

choose wisely !!

You need to talk to an engine builder,
I'm a racer & yes I do build most all my own stuff too
I'm not the machinist,
I just know what works for me & what I like
& what I have done
what I do & can deal with...
That maybe something completely different
than your wishes or your builders choices
go with what they recommend

don't build by committee, pick a style or a builder & stay on course

I can steer you some but won't walk you thru ever aspect
you need to do some due diligence & research
all the info is out there or on here

you can go with thinner head gaskets, still have plenty of quench area
thinner head gaskets & smaller combustion chambers for more compression
to help keep the compression up
when you order the head, you can choose what style head assoc.
of the style of camshaft, you are using for the valvetrain components

E-street Edelbrock is the bargain version of a Edelbrock alum. head
has the same ports as the RPM, same flow relatively
but slightly cheaper/lesser quality valves & springs & retainers

sort of meant for bolt on lower compression combo & go

the combustion chamber is sized for what style of piston
(down in to hole {how much}, a zero deck or +cc domes
(Depends on how much & where the flat quench are is related to compression height)
& compression you have or will want,
smaller cc chambers, smaller opening in the head gaskest, also
with raise the compression some

the bigger 84cc Closed chambers RPM's (or E-street)
& 88cc open chambers on the RPM
(not sure I'd have to look if it's avail. on E-street)
won't bump up the compression as much
actually
I think you can get a 75 (?) or 78cc (?) in the RPM's now too
go to their site & look it spells it all out

with that cam, IMO either would work fine
don't think you'd have any valve to piston clearance issues
as long as that camshaft was NOT ground way retarded or way advanced
even then I don't think you have any real issues
you could use mostly stock-ish components, push rods, rockers etc.
with lil' to NO clearance issues, anywhere

you're not building a huge hp or something with
ultra-high compression or high lift (cam) combo

you really need to get a builder
&/or go to the products site, Edelbrock or 440source
& 'read' the information about their products
of all the ones I touched on

&/or do some searches here,
use the search option at the top right of the page
there's literally 1,000+ threads about cylinder heads
or camshafts for that matter

good luck
another wall of text
View attachment 1321157

I take all the advice i can get! Since i was about 20 years old, I specialized in shut up, listen, and learn! I appreciate you taking the time to help give some direction. The only limiting factor now is my Mrs only allowing a few part orders between the big bills!

 

[Geoff 2]

[1] Rockers. Aftermarket roller rockers usually deliver their rated ratio, & some times a little more. Factory rockers generally deliver less ratio. That means less lift & less area under the curve. Whether the butt-meter would feel the difference, hard to say.
[2] Congrats on the AVS2 car, Great carbs!

 

[66Satellite47]

I take all the advice i can get! Since i was about 20 years old, I specialized in shut up, listen, and learn! I appreciate you taking the time to help give some direction. The only limiting factor now is my Mrs only allowing a few part orders between the big bills!

Your approach is excellent. For a Streeter, you may or may not need to go to the aluminum heads. But aluminum would be easier to use pump gas. The EDE RPM is a very good product. If you can do a basic pocket port on your 906's they will do just fine also. Very little porting really wakes those stock heads up. The old Mopar HD stamped rockers seemed to do well. I preferred the ductile Isky or Crane adjustable style. Good luck