Thanks. I’m looking to keep the ammeter and I understand bypass, etc. I think I’ve found my answers, so I appreciate all of the responses.
For now I’m looking for a two field alternator with lower amps.
Ammeter Quick Question and 95 AMP alternator question
- Thread starter mrmolding
- Start date
For now I’m looking for a two field alternator with lower amps.
LowBikeMike
Well-Known Member
I think you are fine with your current set up. It's normal for the needle to go the positive side for a short time after start. You are most likely seeing it close to pegging because the 95 amp alt is providing more current and recharging the battery faster. Its not going to be putting out 95amp all the time. Just keep an eye on the bulkhead connectors, inspecting and servicing regularly if needed and you should be fine. I've done the Nacho dual path and love having my Ammeter working properly, so I understand your desire to keep it stock.
4406bbl
Well-Known Member
If you are never adding more load, keep the alternator, run a 4ga wire from the alternator stud to the battery with a fuse or fuseable link, and get a USB lighter adapter that shows voltage as your gauge. I would still clean the bulkhead connectors and eliminate the ammeter by strapping it. If you decide to add a bunch of high draw items it is wise to use a relay to feed the blue side of the regulator directly from the battery also. The way your system is now is fine...until the battery goes bad and the alternator cooks the wiring, but to be honest the 46 amp could do the same thing. Lots of ways to achieve your goals just make a plan, the manufacturers quit using ammeters for a reason.
Thanks! I think people are misreading what my original post was. I want to keep the ammeter. I do not want to get rid of it. I've basically put the car electrically back to 1970 with all of the wiring, gauges, etc. So, I was only concerned about the initial jump when the car started but quickly came down to zero. I've already done charge wires, etc and it all works to pull the ammeter out. But I just prefer to have an ammeter since I grew up with one. I did add a voltmeter under the dash so I'm good on that. Thanks again!
bobsgtx
Well-Known Member
If you want to keep the ammeter working as factory I would do 3 things. Bypass bulkhead connectors for alternator and battery feed. Check the ammeter connections to make sure they are clean and tight. Use larger wire than stock.
Crackedback
Well-Known Member
If you bought a wire around and a relay kit from me at the same time, the relay kit likely gets power at the starter relay.
If you want to run the ammeter, ditching the charge wire, you will need to change the relay kit power pick up point to the alternator charge stud. One more thing to add to the list of things to do.
If you want to run the ammeter, ditching the charge wire, you will need to change the relay kit power pick up point to the alternator charge stud. One more thing to add to the list of things to do.
So in that case, are just larger wires all you need? There are posts on the dodgecharger forum that outline exactly that with larger wires. Does that have the same effect as a charge wire?
I was wondering if all you need is bypass and using larger wires, say 8 or 10 gauge, is the ammeter itself rated for a specific limit? Would it blow (or something) because it has too much current? That is why I asked the shunt question in my original post. Thanks!!!
I know I am against the grain of current thinking, but my car is electrically new and you can't just go out and get a brand new 46 amp 2 field alternator anymore. Thanks again!
So I sold the relay kit but kept the charge wire.
Got any solutions for sale that I can just plug in? Thanks!!!Crackedback
Well-Known Member
no I don't
So I sold that car before I had a chance to put it in and was car-less for a few years so I sold the harness. Thanks!
Wondering if I should have created a How do I use an ammeter in today's world thread instead. Anyway, thanks everyone! We can let this thread go stale for now. I pretty much have everything I need.
Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
Nothing to worry with higher amp accs if they are sourced CORRECTLY from alt side, never on batt side on cars with ammeters. Most of the systems being burnt along the years are based on incorrectly sourcing added accs on batt side WITH ammeter and related wiring coming into the cab specially with the packard terminals.
Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
That’s the main goal and you got the best ammeter response as posible. Is NORMAL the ammeter will read top charge after crank up the engine for a few seconds or minutes depending on alt capacity, cranking time &/or cold or warm start up if the choke/fast idle cam entered into play. Battery is an extra device will claim for power untill get fully charged again. Then will stop to claim for load.
but you already made it… zero reading at ammeter on normal operation it means no load going through the ammeter or bulkhead path running to batt. Just the load between alternator and main splice into the cab is getting the loads so the packard terminal on that line is really working. But since you already eliminated the extra load to get constantly charge to the batt using stock low performance alts ( factory ) every time the engine was being revved up, then even with the packard terminals your charging network is happier than before.
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Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
side note:
AMMETER even was called ALTERNATOR as a gauge on earlier years, IS NOT REALLY reading the alternator status, but really the battery status. Why? Alternator is not an accumulator to be on discharge stage. It charges or not but won’t get discharge.
Aside that, and as I wrote up on a not really old thread zero reading doesn’t mean alternator is not working and in fact is the best stage posible.
If you disconnect the alt with engine running, ammeter will read discharge…
If you disconnect the batt with engine running ( as far iddle allows to keep the alt sourcing by its capacity ), ammeter will stuck at zero…
So then the ammeter really reads the batt status, not the alt status.
That’s another prove the death centered ammeter it means the best charging status, with an alt able to feed everything and not load running through the ammeter for any reason on any direction.
AMMETER even was called ALTERNATOR as a gauge on earlier years, IS NOT REALLY reading the alternator status, but really the battery status. Why? Alternator is not an accumulator to be on discharge stage. It charges or not but won’t get discharge.
Aside that, and as I wrote up on a not really old thread zero reading doesn’t mean alternator is not working and in fact is the best stage posible.
If you disconnect the alt with engine running, ammeter will read discharge…
If you disconnect the batt with engine running ( as far iddle allows to keep the alt sourcing by its capacity ), ammeter will stuck at zero…
So then the ammeter really reads the batt status, not the alt status.
That’s another prove the death centered ammeter it means the best charging status, with an alt able to feed everything and not load running through the ammeter for any reason on any direction.
Thanks as always!!! Going to start actually enjoying the car!
Crackedback
Well-Known Member
OK. I still build all the same items as before. Don't do anything to run additional wires into the cabin and keep the ammeter.
Good luck and glad you got it sorted out.
451Mopar
Well-Known Member
If you don't add additional loads to the electrical system, you should be able to use the stock wiring with the higher output alternator as long as the battery is in good condition (and the bulkhead connectors are clean and tight.) As you noticed the high charge rate for a short time is just to re-charge the battery. Once the battery is charged, the ammeter should not show much of a charge or discharge as long as the alternator can supply the current the vehicle needs.
A bad battery or voltage regulator that runs too high a voltage will have the alternator putting out constant extra current trying to get the battery voltage upto the regulated voltage, and that can overheat the wires and bulkhead connector. The fusible link should prevent this if sized correctly.
The other condition is if there is extra load or "soft" short circuit under the dash. The alternator will try putting out the extra current and there is no fusible link on the alternator side going to the ammeter, so that could burn up the wiring if the problem happens when the engine is running. If there is a "hard" short circuit to ground, it should kill the ignition and stop the engine, thus no alternator output.
Anyhow, if the extra high battery charge current is only for a short time it should be OK. If adding additional electrical accessories, it is best to power them from the ammeter output stud through relays to reduce current through the bulkhead and ammeter circuit, but the power will have more "noise" than if powered from the battery.
That is why the by-pass method going direct from alternator out to battery is common when converting to EFI.
A bad battery or voltage regulator that runs too high a voltage will have the alternator putting out constant extra current trying to get the battery voltage upto the regulated voltage, and that can overheat the wires and bulkhead connector. The fusible link should prevent this if sized correctly.
The other condition is if there is extra load or "soft" short circuit under the dash. The alternator will try putting out the extra current and there is no fusible link on the alternator side going to the ammeter, so that could burn up the wiring if the problem happens when the engine is running. If there is a "hard" short circuit to ground, it should kill the ignition and stop the engine, thus no alternator output.
Anyhow, if the extra high battery charge current is only for a short time it should be OK. If adding additional electrical accessories, it is best to power them from the ammeter output stud through relays to reduce current through the bulkhead and ammeter circuit, but the power will have more "noise" than if powered from the battery.
That is why the by-pass method going direct from alternator out to battery is common when converting to EFI.
Nacho-RT74
Well-Known Member
About the shorts… except if the short is into the charging system between alt output and ammeter or all the ignition system, every system is already fuse protected so it won’t get any problem.
Now, a short into those systems… a short into the charging line between alt stud and amm stud should be a hard short able to stall the engine immediately if running, then the fuse link will enter on the game. If engine is not running the fuse link should blow too but will enter on game faster.
On ignition network, the fuse link “should” also protect the system HOWEVER is true being mostly sure a ”soft” short due the wiring size it could take more time to being able to blown out the fuse link so more damage will be made to the wiring. Even more if engine is running because alt could be able to feed it for some time before stall. Hence why is important not to oversize the fuse link.
Now, a short into those systems… a short into the charging line between alt stud and amm stud should be a hard short able to stall the engine immediately if running, then the fuse link will enter on the game. If engine is not running the fuse link should blow too but will enter on game faster.
On ignition network, the fuse link “should” also protect the system HOWEVER is true being mostly sure a ”soft” short due the wiring size it could take more time to being able to blown out the fuse link so more damage will be made to the wiring. Even more if engine is running because alt could be able to feed it for some time before stall. Hence why is important not to oversize the fuse link.
Hey all, it took me a while to digest all of the help, but between Nacho's work in the dodgecharger forum to leave the ammeter in place, and then someone else mentioning "Fleet Upgrade" was when things started to click. Finally, a comment on the a-bodies forum about looking in the "71 Service Manual for the 65 AMP Wiring" and it all kind of hit me -- it's "literally" just two new larger wires with a fusible link and it's been in the 71 Service Manual all along. Both Nacho and the other member (b5_blue maybe?) describe pretty much what is in the 71 Service manual. Hurray! So, I think this will be what I get to next! Thanks again to everyone for the help!
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4406bbl
Well-Known Member
That will fix the bulkhead connector issue but is the ammeter shunted for that alternator or the same part number? The way I see it the ammeter will not read when accessories are turned on in the car as the feed to them is spliced, and fed off of the standard fusible link. The circuit shown just isolates the ammeter, I bet it acts like the "dead" ammeter the later car had, in other words it only moves when the battery is discharged.
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