The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[Jeff Peterson]

How about a program to ADD weight!

 

[fullmetaljacket]

How about a program to ADD weight!

View attachment 1888036

Adding weight? We'll have to talk to DVW here who constantly is adding weight to keep his flying kite car on the ground.
I've added weight in all the right places over the years, but not much.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

In a reversal to that famous Cigarette commercial from the 70's. "I'd Rather Fight Than Switch".................well, the drivers to some of these lightweights must have "Switched Rather Than Fight" because by the looks of these front bumpers, They switched from Drag racing to demolition smash up derby. LOL.

I gambled and tested one thing on this GAMBLER car that I was suspicious of for years because I couldn't find anyone to corroborate the theory. Did the '65 A990 cars come through with thin gauge radiator core supports. Well........by what this car has given up, Yes they did.
I was surprised of the thin tin at this crucial front end part. It was flimsy.

 

[Jeff Peterson]

Adding weight?

The Jack Werst "cheaterbird"
"The rear glass is thicker and heavier than stock, and the filler panel around the glass is weighted. Also weighted is the upper center tail panel, and there's additional weight behind the tail lamps. The wing supports are pot metal, but the top of the wing is heavier than stock. A 1-1/2-in. thick sheet of lead, hidden underneath the rear package tray, runs the width of the car."

 

[Badvert65]

In a reversal to that famous Cigarette commercial from the 70's. "I'd Rather Fight Than Switch".................well, the drivers to some of these lightweights must have "Switched Rather Than Fight" because by the looks of these front bumpers, They switched from Drag racing to demolition smash up derby. LOL.

I gambled and tested one thing on this GAMBLER car that I was suspicious of for years because I couldn't find anyone to corroborate the theory. Did the '65 A990 cars come through with thin gauge radiator core supports. Well........by what this car has given up, Yes they did.
I was surprised of the thin tin at this crucial front end part. It was flimsy.

View attachment 1888091

Is that one of those thin gauge sheet metal bumpers on that Belvedere?

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Is that one of those thin gauge sheet metal bumpers on that Belvedere?

Yes. It is one of the thin stamped bumpers.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The Jack Werst "cheaterbird"
"The rear glass is thicker and heavier than stock, and the filler panel around the glass is weighted. Also weighted is the upper center tail panel, and there's additional weight behind the tail lamps. The wing supports are pot metal, but the top of the wing is heavier than stock. A 1-1/2-in. thick sheet of lead, hidden underneath the rear package tray, runs the width of the car."

Rumor has it that Daytona and Super bird aluminum noses were once produced, but somehow not applied onto the cars themselves. Funny, how weight can be both an ill factor in most cases and beneficial in others.
Case in point is wheelbase. Wheel base is the most overlooked in most discussions, because as light as a Dodge Colt could be, it can also be an out of control bronco because of its short wheelbase and weightlessness. Add a bunch of weight to calm it down and it now can become an out of control mini anvil. The partial answer is all in the wheelbase displacement, overhang and steering geometry, whereas a Superbird with its long wheelbase may benefit from weight in the rear and be controllable and a dream to drive.

 

[gooser]

i think for the run with the chevy ss they had a big hemi in the superbird at least 480 cu in the story goes he would beat the chevy and the next round foul out so there would not be a tear down of the motor

 

[fullmetaljacket]

i think for the run with the chevy ss they had a big hemi in the superbird at least 480 cu in the story goes he would beat the chevy and the next round foul out so there would not be a tear down of the motor

I saw that Chevy run for many years at my now defunct local track. It was consistently a tough cookie. Probably had its own Felix The Cat bag of tricks as well.

 

[Jeff Peterson]

i think for the run with the chevy ss they had a big hemi in the superbird at least 480 cu in the story goes he would beat the chevy and the next round foul out so there would not be a tear down of the motor

Supposedly 512, it also had the rear axle moved 2.5" forward along with the wheel wells, hence the "busy" paint job, motor setback 1", staggered wheels for greater rollout on the starting line.
All this is talk from over the years.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Supposedly 512, it also had the rear axle moved 2.5" forward along with the wheel wells, hence the "busy" paint job, motor setback 1", staggered wheels for greater rollout on the starting line.
All this is talk from over the years.

Not surprised by The Old Chrysler companies mad scientist's doing the work during the witching hours.

 

[Photon440]

Rumor has it that Daytona and Super bird aluminum noses were once produced, but somehow not applied onto the cars themselves. Funny, how weight can be both an ill factor in most cases and beneficial in others.
Case in point is wheelbase. Wheel base is the most overlooked in most discussions, because as light as a Dodge Colt could be, it can also be an out of control bronco because of its short wheelbase and weightlessness. Add a bunch of weight to calm it down and it now can become an out of control mini anvil. The partial answer is all in the wheelbase displacement, overhang and steering geometry, whereas a Superbird with its long wheelbase may benefit from weight in the rear and be controllable and a dream to drive.

I don't think they were trying to get the weight down too much for NASCAR, as the rules (1970) called for a 3500 pound minimum.


b. Minimum weight Category 1 and Category 2 cars.


9.36 lbs. per cubic inch of piston displacement, with gas, oil and water, ready for racing without driver, with an absolute minimum of 3,500 pounds for all cars.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I don't think they were trying to get the weight down too much for NASCAR, as the rules (1970) called for a 3500 pound minimum.


b. Minimum weight Category 1 and Category 2 cars.


9.36 lbs. per cubic inch of piston displacement, with gas, oil and water, ready for racing without driver, with an absolute minimum of 3,500 pounds for all cars.

Yes, you're correct for the NASCAR programs, but it was for the drag versions that they thought were going to take flight after the publicity campaigns with Sox and Martins on the national circuit tracks and strangely, most probably Big Willie on the back streets of LA.
Big Willie allegedly received two wing cars or at least factory parts backing because he and his wife Tomiko were huge influences on the streets in the Wild, Wild West coast. Love that opening scene in "Two Lane Blacktop" That's one of his Wing cars.

As mentioned, rumors of Chrysler Unicorn parts are both true and perhaps false. If these parts do indeed exist, I am sure that they will end up at the MCACN show sometime in the future.

 

[Photon440]

Yes, you're correct for the NASCAR programs, but it was for the drag versions that they thought were going to take flight after the publicity campaigns with Sox and Martins on the national circuit tracks and strangely, most probably Big Willie on the back streets of LA.
Big Willie allegedly received two wing cars or at least factory parts backing because he and his wife Tomiko were huge influences on the streets in the Wild, Wild West coast. Love that opening scene in "Two Lane Blacktop" That's one of his Wing cars.

As mentioned, rumors of Chrysler Unicorn parts are both true and perhaps false. If these parts do indeed exist, I am sure that they will end up at the MCACN show sometime in the future.

I hadn't known about the heritage of the Superbird in Two Lane Blacktop, thanks.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Say whhhattt? Check out the film or just google "opening scene in "Two Lane Black Top" 4 speed wing car street racing, I believe it's a Daytona.

 

[Dodge 330]

In a reversal to that famous Cigarette commercial from the 70's. "I'd Rather Fight Than Switch".................well, the drivers to some of these lightweights must have "Switched Rather Than Fight" because by the looks of these front bumpers, They switched from Drag racing to demolition smash up derby. LOL.

I gambled and tested one thing on this GAMBLER car that I was suspicious of for years because I couldn't find anyone to corroborate the theory. Did the '65 A990 cars come through with thin gauge radiator core supports. Well........by what this car has given up, Yes they did.
I was surprised of the thin tin at this crucial front end part. It was flimsy.

View attachment 1888091

Wow, that's neat! Any evidence of aluminum dashes back then? Thought someone had mentioned them.

 

[Photon440]

Say whhhattt? Check out the film or just google "opening scene in "Two Lane Black Top" 4 speed wing car street racing, I believe it's a Daytona.

You're right, it's a Daytona.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

You're right, it's a Daytona.
View attachment 1888421

There were two of them and Willie was getting blessed by someone at Chrysler with some parts and maybe engines. Kind of a west Coast version of Detroit's "Silver Bullet"
I knew Willie well enough to talk shop with him several times over the years.
He also told me that the NYC street racing scene was a world of its own on planet Mars with too much money and HP on the line for him to compete. That would have been epic.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Wow, that's neat! Any evidence of aluminum dashes back then? Thought someone had mentioned them.

Yes, I did mention the aluminum dash frames. I actually got to see one of them once at The Nationals in the early 90's.
There were allegedly only four to eight of them made for the 2% FX cars of '64 and '65.

The first four aluminum dash frames were installed at various time points on the '64 2% Hemi FX cars. Supposedly later the following year, the next four aluminum dashes were secretly installed on the four '65 2% Hemi FX cars because by then, aluminum was outlawed.
These are not to be confused with the '65 10/15 A/FX Altered wheelbase cars assembled at Amblewagon in Detroit. Those 10 to 11 cars received all their dashboard frames in one piece fiberglass.

Now mind you, I heard from a Michigan birdie that at a certain BBQ party, there was a stack of aluminum dashes in the basement of that home. Can't remember who exactly.
All of this is perhaps folklore legend, but I can tell you this. A 1965 A/FX lightweight stainless K- member was right here in Brooklyn on a street race car for many years. It ended up in the garbage because the gentleman didn't want to repair and weld all the bends and cracks. Go figure.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

You're right, it's a Daytona.
View attachment 1888421

I think the over grown Ford style teardrop scoop looks great on that car.