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Well, THIS came with zero instructions. I was completely on my own with every aspect of the installation.
Installing Hydroboost and bigger brakes in a 1970 Charger
- Thread starter Kern Dog
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**UPDATE**
Since I abandoned the Hydroboost aspect of this project, I installed a 4th power steering pump. This one was a used but functioning unit I had in the shed. It started off like the others. Steering assist worked at all engine speeds but then started to fail at idle. Ultimately, I had to rev the engine to get it to make any boost at all which made low speed steering very difficult.
I was blaming the hydroboost unit for killing these power steering pumps but now I had the same exact thing happen to the 4th pump and THIS one was installed with no hydroboost in the car.
Today while I was replacing the pump yet again, I found a kink in a hard line of the inline cooler. The return line from the steering box attached to the kinked line on the cooler. Flow was restricted on the return side as a result. I can only guess but flow was probably restricted by half. It may be hard to see but the kinked line is the top one and the kink is near the bend.
After straightening the kink and changing the pump, the steering assist seems fine. It started me wondering if the other pumps are still okay.
It also got me wondering if this Hydroboost unit is actually okay and is not defective.
Since I know very little about hydraulic function, I'm curious if a flow restriction in the return side could cause the HB to fail to work. The pump never made any sounds like it was struggling. No grinding sounds, no belt squealing, no chatter and the fluid wasn't foamy.
I'll do an internet search on fluid flow and see what I find out. In the meantime, I sent an email to Dr Diff about this. I hope that he responds soon.
When I pulled the hydroboost unit off, I installed a 15/16" manual master cylinder. The system isn't fully bled out yet but I have driven the car. The pedal does firm up and the car does stop but it isn't confidence inspiring. Oddly, it rips to a stop at slow speeds but doesn't feel as good over 20 mph.
I'm willing to admit that my efforts of a manual brake setup are another failure and that I need some type of power assist. I have the option of using the old '75 Dart vacuum booster again but with 7" of idle vacuum, I'll also need to dust off the vacuum booster and wire it in.
The other option is to take another stab at this hydroboost unit from Dr Diff.
Either way, I have the stuff here to make either work.
Since I abandoned the Hydroboost aspect of this project, I installed a 4th power steering pump. This one was a used but functioning unit I had in the shed. It started off like the others. Steering assist worked at all engine speeds but then started to fail at idle. Ultimately, I had to rev the engine to get it to make any boost at all which made low speed steering very difficult.
I was blaming the hydroboost unit for killing these power steering pumps but now I had the same exact thing happen to the 4th pump and THIS one was installed with no hydroboost in the car.
Today while I was replacing the pump yet again, I found a kink in a hard line of the inline cooler. The return line from the steering box attached to the kinked line on the cooler. Flow was restricted on the return side as a result. I can only guess but flow was probably restricted by half. It may be hard to see but the kinked line is the top one and the kink is near the bend.
After straightening the kink and changing the pump, the steering assist seems fine. It started me wondering if the other pumps are still okay.
It also got me wondering if this Hydroboost unit is actually okay and is not defective.
Since I know very little about hydraulic function, I'm curious if a flow restriction in the return side could cause the HB to fail to work. The pump never made any sounds like it was struggling. No grinding sounds, no belt squealing, no chatter and the fluid wasn't foamy.
I'll do an internet search on fluid flow and see what I find out. In the meantime, I sent an email to Dr Diff about this. I hope that he responds soon.
When I pulled the hydroboost unit off, I installed a 15/16" manual master cylinder. The system isn't fully bled out yet but I have driven the car. The pedal does firm up and the car does stop but it isn't confidence inspiring. Oddly, it rips to a stop at slow speeds but doesn't feel as good over 20 mph.
I'm willing to admit that my efforts of a manual brake setup are another failure and that I need some type of power assist. I have the option of using the old '75 Dart vacuum booster again but with 7" of idle vacuum, I'll also need to dust off the vacuum booster and wire it in.
The other option is to take another stab at this hydroboost unit from Dr Diff.
Either way, I have the stuff here to make either work.
Dan64
Well-Known Member
Any thoughts of trying a 7/8" bore MC with your current rotors/ calipers?
themechanic
Oklahoma is OK
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Just install a quiet new vacuum pump from Leed Brakes or another company and be done.
I am hoping the discovery of the kink will inspire you to revisit the hydroboost project. You were so close and have time and money tied up in it. I have owned vehicles equipped with hydroboost and it works really well. Would be a nice option to have on the list of brake mods for Mopars.
Histoy
Well-Known Member
I was going to install the Leeds vacuum pump on my car, but I made the mistake of installing a CPP hydro boost instead. I ended up having to buy a new power steering pump to get the hydro boost to work properly. I really regretted not buying the Leeds unit.
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Cass (Dr Diff) responded. He is looking into the possibility that the restricted line may have been an issue. He also mentioned that another customer had trouble with the Saginaw pump not being adequate. More to follow.
Histoy
Well-Known Member
In order to get my CPP hydro boost system to work properly on my '56 Chevy, I had to purchase a Borgeson 800323 PS pump. It is a hi flow unit designed specifically for hydro boost systems. It has 2 return lines and requires a pressed on pulley. My system has worked fine ever since putting it on. I bought it from Summit for $157.19 at the time.
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Aftermarket steering pumps....With as much of a mystery as it can be to find proper pulleys that line up where you want, how much worse is it to find something for a NON stock application??
Holy crap....This isn't a full custom build here. This is a fairly stock based car with some aftermarket parts.
If it comes down to having to put another pump in place, that would sway me back to the vacuum booster and pump. I already have that stuff here. Sometimes a man just gets tired of throwing money and time at a project.
Holy crap....This isn't a full custom build here. This is a fairly stock based car with some aftermarket parts.
If it comes down to having to put another pump in place, that would sway me back to the vacuum booster and pump. I already have that stuff here. Sometimes a man just gets tired of throwing money and time at a project.
1 Wild R/T
Well-Known Member
Yup, the aftermarket pump probably bolts right up to a small block chebby, but last I checked you don't have a small block chebby....
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This is strange.
When I first was gathering knowledge and parts, a member here suggested an aftermarket reservoir for the Saginaw pump, one with 2 return nipples.
I ended up getting one from a wrecked Chevy truck. It was a Saginaw model.
If the Saginaw pump was good enough to work in a 6000-7000 lb Chevy truck, why wouldn't it be enough for a system in a car under 4000 lbs?
Regardless, I can look at this as a learning experience.
When I first was gathering knowledge and parts, a member here suggested an aftermarket reservoir for the Saginaw pump, one with 2 return nipples.
I ended up getting one from a wrecked Chevy truck. It was a Saginaw model.
If the Saginaw pump was good enough to work in a 6000-7000 lb Chevy truck, why wouldn't it be enough for a system in a car under 4000 lbs?
Regardless, I can look at this as a learning experience.
Cheapsunglasses
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themechanic
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Interesting, very detailed instructions.
Custom Power Brake - Hydraulic brake booster conversions for your brakes!
CustomPowerBrake.com - Hydroboost conversions for your brakes. It is great for off-roading in 4x4s with larger tires, towing, and racing. Add more stopping power to your brakes!
custompowerbrake.com
Strato58
Active Member
Reviving this thread because Im looking for a solution but after all the labor and effort from Kern Dog (who appears to be masterful) the hydroboost was not a very good solution. No way It would work for me anyway because I have a manual steering car. Looks like the Leed vacuum pump may be the way to go?
I haven't run a pump, but I did run a Vacuum canister for a few months (then determined I had a brake line leak and didn't need the canister at all with my mild cam). The most convenient mounting places I came up with for the canister were under the batter tray, tucked in high in one of the front wheel wells (Kern Dog has his vacuum pump there) and possibly passenger side engine bay front inner fender corner. I like under the battery tray the best to hide it out of sight, but KD also seems to have no issue with his wheel well location.
bohochg
Member
I'm in the process of putting Hydro boost on my 71 Charger.
I'm seeing concerns that the Saginaw pump is not up to powering both the power steering & the hydro boost pump.
Is it a pressure issue, or a fluid volume/capacity issue?
Could it be a problem with the fluid becoming aerated?
I'm not working from a kit but have assembled my own system with help from a friend that built his own system for his big block Chevelle.
His brakes & power steering work just fine at any speed. Brakes especially.
He put a bulkhead fitting in the power steering pump housing for a 2nd return line.
One other thing he did was use the transmission cooler already mounted to the front of his radiator as the power steering fluid cooler.
Could the extra capacity from the transmission cooler be helping this issue?
I'm seeing concerns that the Saginaw pump is not up to powering both the power steering & the hydro boost pump.
Is it a pressure issue, or a fluid volume/capacity issue?
Could it be a problem with the fluid becoming aerated?
I'm not working from a kit but have assembled my own system with help from a friend that built his own system for his big block Chevelle.
His brakes & power steering work just fine at any speed. Brakes especially.
He put a bulkhead fitting in the power steering pump housing for a 2nd return line.
One other thing he did was use the transmission cooler already mounted to the front of his radiator as the power steering fluid cooler.
Could the extra capacity from the transmission cooler be helping this issue?
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The attempt at hydroboost was a failure that still annoys me.
This is because I never figured out why I could not get it to work despite weeks of work. The power steering kept failing which of course directly affects the brake system as well. I used a pump reservoir from a 1990s era Chevy truck that had a Saginaw pump. I could have used the actual pump that was in that reservoir but it had a serpentine belt pulley and I did not have a traditional V-belt pulley to use on it. In retrospect, maybe that pump actually did produce more pressure than the part store rebuilt pumps that I tried using.
I recall that the routine was that I'd install a pump, steering assist was fine. I'd try to bleed it out and after several attempts, the brakes never improved but the steering assist failed. I'd pull the pump, split the pump from the reservoir, put in another pump and try again....and get the same results.
This is because I never figured out why I could not get it to work despite weeks of work. The power steering kept failing which of course directly affects the brake system as well. I used a pump reservoir from a 1990s era Chevy truck that had a Saginaw pump. I could have used the actual pump that was in that reservoir but it had a serpentine belt pulley and I did not have a traditional V-belt pulley to use on it. In retrospect, maybe that pump actually did produce more pressure than the part store rebuilt pumps that I tried using.
I recall that the routine was that I'd install a pump, steering assist was fine. I'd try to bleed it out and after several attempts, the brakes never improved but the steering assist failed. I'd pull the pump, split the pump from the reservoir, put in another pump and try again....and get the same results.
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