493 Stroker Engine with exhaust manifolds

Has anyone built a stroker motor to run completely stock appearing? Any pinging issues?
Tried a setup a few years back with a 484 cam 9.75 compression cast iron everything and thermoquad and the thing would not stop pinging no matter what. Manifolds even turned red. Tried mixing C12 and backing up timing but no luck
The minute I put headers on it. It ran fine. Shifting it at 5200 on street radials 79 magnum ran low 12's 114mph

Any input on this I would love to go to that setup again maybe with some advise I can make it happen.

Thanks

I am building a 440/512 with 11:1 compression and plan on using HP manifolds. The manifold getting hot does not sound like the manifolds fault but maybe a lean condition or timing.

I am building a 451 in a 69 Road Runner. 11.5 to 1 C/R. Stock H P exhaust manifolds. I live at 5000 feet elevation. I removed the heat riser valve from the passenger side maniflod. Had to leave the shaft in as it blocks 2 holes that would leak exhaust if removed. I think restrictive exhaust can lead to pinging and heat build up. This seems to happen when a catalytic converter clogs up. Well good luck, and I let you know how mine runs.

My 440 based 496 has 9.9 compression and massaged 906 heads. I now use stock '68-'69 manofolds and iron intake in place of my headers and six pack. If I had to do it over again, I'd go to 9.0:1 and cam the thing strictly as a lower RPM torque monster not worrying about horsepower so much (think Cadillac 500 CID). Yep, I currently get pinging sometimes, so you're not alone. I still have more power than the Hoosiers can handle, even with the change of a 3.23 in place of the 4.10. Changing the cam and slowing my advance curve way down made the car more of a pleasure to drive and cut the pinging way way way down.

robinsonwr said:

I am building a 440/512 with 11:1 compression and plan on using HP manifolds. The manifold getting hot does not sound like the manifolds fault but maybe a lean condition or timing.

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I was kind of leaning to the fuel mixture but what always keeps trowing me off is how that thing ran with headers. And headers lean it out further.As far as the timing goes it'sat 11 initial with heavy springs and full advance didn't come in until about 3000rpm. I wonder if the Thermoquads very small primaries have something to do with it causing lean condition.
Tried a full pass with headers and it was 2/10 quicker than the demon holley and the throtle response was out of this world

wedgie said:

My 440 based 496 has 9.9 compression and massaged 906 heads. I now use stock '68-'69 manofolds and iron intake in place of my headers and six pack. If I had to do it over again, I'd go to 9.0:1 and cam the thing strictly as a lower RPM torque monster not worrying about horsepower so much (think Cadillac 500 CID). Yep, I currently get pinging sometimes, so you're not alone. I still have more power than the Hoosiers can handle, even with the change of a 3.23 in place of the 4.10. Changing the cam and slowing my advance curve way down made the car more of a pleasure to drive and cut the pinging way way way down.

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That is awsome I want the same thing I am very stuborn and I will figure it out and I will be sure to pass it on.
I got a cam ground from Bullet (Talk to John Partridge he used to be with Lunati) which I will try out it's very strong on the exhaust side and the overlap is not too low with all those cubes it should not effect the idle that much it should get aroung 16 to 17"

i think the real key to this is valve timing. specifically a wide lobe seperation.

The guys running the FAST cars have to use manifolds and most of them are strokers. You might want to talk to some of them. Ron

Great idea that would be fantastic I will look F.A.S.T and see what I can come up with. If you have any other info it would be greatly appreciated.

m79ded said:

I was kind of leaning to the fuel mixture but what always keeps trowing me off is how that thing ran with headers. And headers lean it out further.As far as the timing goes it'sat 11 initial with heavy springs and full advance didn't come in until about 3000rpm. I wonder if the Thermoquads very small primaries have something to do with it causing lean condition.
Tried a full pass with headers and it was 2/10 quicker than the demon holley and the throtle response was out of this world

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OK, the headers are not as restrictive as manifolds. It is not unheard of for an engine to gain as much as 50-75hp over manifolds and restrictive exhaust. That kind of power is felt in the seat of the pants. My build will be a 440/512 with 11:1 compression, Stealth heads, and Weiand 8009 intake. The camshaft is a Comp Cam hydraulic roller with advertised duration of 280-286, @ .050 duration 231-236, and lift of 622-625 with 1.6 crane rockers. Short duration and high lift is the combination I settled on. I am hoping for 575-600 hp and 600+ft lbs tq.

I have a hard time understanding the need for stroker kits and aluminum heads on the street.

With intake, headers and a cam, any well built 440 will have enough traction problems on the street that you won't be able to hook in a leaf spring car. (which 99% of our cars are!)

If you use your car for occasional strip duty (like Ron) it's another story but, honestly, over 500 hp on the street is a waste and can turn a really fun car into a giant PITA!

Dodge 330 said:

I have a hard time understanding the need for stroker kits and aluminum heads on the street.

With intake, headers and a cam, any well built 440 will have enough traction problems on the street that you won't be able to hook in a leaf spring car. (which 99% of our cars are!)

If you use your car for occasional strip duty (like Ron) it's another story but, honestly, over 500 hp on the street is a waste and can turn a really fun car into a giant PITA!

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Thank you for your input, Dodge330. I must say if we all thought alike there would be no need for this forum to share information. I am a drag racer that has been slowly converted to the cruisin and restoration side. As long as engines have been around people have strived to either make them larger or make more horsepower. I have the original 361 out of my Satellite. One day it will see the stock rebuild it deserves. Oh, I do not know if you have been to the races lately but stock suspension style cars are flying. On Calvert Racing website a 3500lb second generation camaro (leaf spring car) went 7.24 @ 200mph to sweeten that a little it was on DOT approved drag radials.
Some of us aspire to have a reliable engine that makes good horsepower and torque. My reason for a stroker and aluminum heads was to build an engine that looks stock and sounds docile while being an absolute beast. I really do not care about the horsepower on this build. I am more concerned with making mssive amounts of torque. Torque is king on the street. I have had street/strip cars in the past that were not very streetable and yes they were a serious PITA. This is my attempt at having the best of both worlds without going overboard with single plane intakes, huge duration/lift camshafts, high stall converters, and steep gears. There is no replacement for displacement.

Do some research on the term 'quench' and a light will come on. Engines with little to no quench will ping even with low compression and of course the combination has to work together too but if you have lousy quench, even a good combination with the rest of the parts won't be much good in making good power with no ping....

hey
i had a stroked 440 ( 500 c.i. )in my 69 roadrunner 4-speed;
standard 906 heads, compression 9:1 approx
standard hp exhaustmanifolds
a TM-7 singleplane intake with a 850 holley dp. ( Didn't really fit to the package but it worked ) with an original 383 hp aircleaner for the stock look
Don't know exactly what kinda cam was in.
I never had any problems with it. Drove it a lot in summer, no overheating, no problems at all

Mr4Speed,
Yes, yes, yes, that is what I want. The undercover hurtlocker is what I am after. I do not want ridiculous power just enough to get attention, you know what I mean. I want a stock appearance with todays performance lurking under the plain wrapper.

Hey thanks all for the amazing input.I talked to a F.A.S.T racer and the input he gave me is pretty good. That along with the info that I got from this post I think we are on the right track.

Suggestions were with iron heads keep comp to about 9.5 on street car like I had.
The MP484 cam was probably killing the setup.
LEWTOT184 is on the right path with cam timing with wide lobe separation, i was told that the guys with these big motors are running 114 to 116 LSA with lots of duration on exhaust side.
Another thing to check was A/F mixture with these big engines they tend to lean out easily especially with smaller CFM carbs so make sure that it is about 12.3 to 12.8 cruising.

Timing should be about 32-34 if by anychance it can go more. it would be better.

Last few days I was @ dyno with another guy doing the sleeper big motor and the results were interesting.Even put partial exhaust system on dyno.

2.5 inch ex or 3 inch no diff whatsoever through manifolds. Put headers and difference showed up.
Aluminum heads(440 source) made a difference because able to get away with compression.But timing still suffered had to run @ 32 that's it.

Keep cylinder pressures to 175 Max. (Duration overlap affects it dramatically)
Heavy springs on dist giving it a slow advance.

Motor ran O.K with iron intake virgin 440 source heads comp cam exteme energy HL 231 duration at 50, stock rockers
Idled beautiful @ 800 made 18 vaccum
Torque came in at 2000 how does 510TQ@2000 ,550@2500
HP was not really impressive only 460@4500 but was flat from 4000-5200.
The guy was happy went driving around with car 3.23 gears and stock converter. Got great mileage, smashed the pedal @ 50 and broke the tires loose, that's what he wanted.

It takes a lot of patience and trial & error to get this right.He said that they have tried lots of different combo's.
I was @ track and saw 70GSX Buick all factory looking, quiet and very unsuspecting. Put slicks on and pulled 11.40@ 117. TORQUE IS KING!!!
70 superbee 440 same way factory looking quiet 12.10 @ 116
we should be able to get our mopars to do better in factory trim.

Just got through with a pump gas fuel injected three deuce 500" motor. It was sporting some Indy heads and solid roller but all pulls were made with pump gas. It made 638hp @ 5600 & 640+tq @ 4200. It will be transplanted into 72 charger cruiser/street car. The right combination can easily get one of the big inch mopars way into the 11's in street trim.

robinsonwr said:

Just got through with a pump gas fuel injected three deuce 500" motor. It was sporting some Indy heads and solid roller but all pulls were made with pump gas. It made 638hp @ 5600 & 640+tq @ 4200. It will be transplanted into 72 charger cruiser/street car. The right combination can easily get one of the big inch mopars way into the 11's in street trim.

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That is amazing. You got a great thing going on I am sure you will have great success with it and a happy driver. Would like to see the look on peoples faces when they see that thing go.

Dodge 330 said:

I have a hard time understanding the need for stroker kits and aluminum heads on the street.

With intake, headers and a cam, any well built 440 will have enough traction problems on the street that you won't be able to hook in a leaf spring car. (which 99% of our cars are!)

If you use your car for occasional strip duty (like Ron) it's another story but, honestly, over 500 hp on the street is a waste and can turn a really fun car into a giant PITA!

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I agree as since I race my car some I did build a 600 hp eng and I love driving it but it is so easy to lose it if I lay into it and dont really pay attention as there is no hook on the street. The track it hooks good but thats a different pavement. 500 hp is plenty for a street car you dont race. Ron

Hey Thanks that's good advise. I guess a very nice running street 440 may not be that far off a 500ci that is comprimised and in a sense detuned (not running at it's Potential )to work with the manifolds.I mean lower CR,Cam Timing,Ignition Timing,jetting.etc........