how does your restoration shop charge?

i know there is a lot of do it yourself people on here but I unfortunalty don't have the time, I want to tell you my story and see what you think.

I purchased my car from a shop that restores cars and told them I would have them do the work, I paid for the car upfront and also put a 5k deposit down for them to start working on it and order parts, I never received an invoice for the first 2 months but kept paying as I could, I bassicly gave the shop $13,000 for body and paint work 2 months before it had body work and paint done, they did order a lot of parts in that 2 months. anyways September 1st rolled around and I got an email saying I had a credit of $491 dollars. made another deposit of $4500 on September 1st, up to this point car is still not painted. in september car was painted and had suspension put on and quite a lot of other stuff done by start of October "so in 5 weeks or so". was questioning why it wasn't moving along faster and come to find that in that month they really got after "September" it I racked up a $10,000 bill between parts and labor. so I owe them $6700 from the last months work, they informed me they couldn't order more parts, finish the engine or do anything else until I payed more money. I got a little angry because I have been paying for services "labor and parts" well in advance and now im paying after the work has been completed and they are a little angry about that.
when I take my truck to the dealer I don't pay for parts or labor up front?
I don't charge people for my labor or parts up front?
I am just wondering if im not understaning the restoration process correctly or if I am doing something wrong?
on the bright side they are very nice people and do good work. just wondering for the future cars I do what I should be doing and if this is the normal process to expect or does something seem off here?

jakepup said:

i know there is a lot of do it yourself people on here

Click to expand...

Now you know why there are so many do it yourself people here. It's hard to find a good restoration shop that is run in a professional manner.

I FEEL your pain. I'm going through a similar, but not quite as convoluted, scenario as yours as I write this.

In CALIFORNIA all of the AUTOMOTIVE repair shops are licensed by "BAR", Bureau of Automotive Repair. I will soon find out how efficient they are since I filed an official complaint and waiting to be contacted by them.

Below is a page right from their website:

[FONT=&quot]Know Your Rights[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All auto repair shops in California must be registered with the Bureau of Automotive Repair, and every repair shop must post this sign to inform customers of their rights. If you don't see this sign, ask about it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]THIS ESTABLISHMENT IS REGISTERED WITH THE
STATE DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER AFFAIRS[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR
ACT OF 1974, A CUSTOMER IS ENTITLED TO[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

1. [FONT=&quot]A WRITTEN ESTIMATE FOR REPAIR WORK.[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot]A DETAILED INVOICE OF WORK DONE AND PARTS SUPPLIED.[/FONT]
3. [FONT=&quot]RETURN OF REPLACED PARTS, IF REQUESTED AT THE TIME A WORK ORDER IS PLACED.[/FONT]

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE ABOVE SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE MANAGER OF THE REPAIR FACILITY.

As someone here has stated most do their own work.
NOW I know why it took me 6 years to complete my 1930 Model A hot rod. I did ALL the work from a rusted piece of junk to its completion. You are welcome to view my work at [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] HTTP://MYKS30.WEBS.COM



Good luck,
LG,
Mike
[/FONT]

I do an estimate, and after the customer agrees, I get 100% parts money up front before I start the job. I want a customer to have equity/interest in completing the job, and not leave me with something he changed his mind about. If a customer wants to pay more, or pay extra as he gets money, it gets credited to his account. Once I finish the engine, the balance gets paid. I am a small, one man shop, and cannot afford to float parts expense for months. Dealers can do that as they are usually larger corporations or such. Even though I let customers make payments on final balances, it won't leave until it is paid off.

Most people that get their car restored have similar experiences. Its like building a house...it will always be late and over budget. Next time you will know to sit down with the bossman or go-to-guy and make a budget. They will say the bodywork and some fabrication is unknown, in which you agree to a maximum spend on those areas, but knowing it could climb higher if they discover further issues. Always demand an itemized list of work being performed with time and material. Once you are comfortable with this initial quote (your budget), then proceed or go the cheaper route and buy one already restored. It would be impossible to save money on restoring yourself unless you do the work yourself. Most people take a lose when selling their restored car.

Restoration shops are notorious for overbooking cars. Most reasoning is the customer runs out of money and is paying weekly or bi-weekly towards the restoration. These cars are usually covered up in a corner somewhere.

I can say I perfectly understand not floating the parts bill up front for engine parts or large parts bills for months, what I am getting at is if I pay for everything up front "labor included" and it gets finished and there is something I don't agree with on the car, or the engine blows up or spins a bearing on dyno I want the builder to have some skin in the game as well. I understand this is something your trusting them to take care of in a situation like that but I don't want them to have all the money and just say , well.... to bad for you. I was just a little shocked by the $10,000 parts labor bill in 5 weeks when I had no quote to do the work, I asked more than 6 times for qutoes on certain parts of the project but was never givin any, that's my fault for letting it continue like that. im sure they didn't want to run into any snags that cost more and went over the quote but I couldn't even get a ballpark figure. I guess its good to know for next time and thanks for all the replies!

I paid for the complete restoration of my R/T when I picked it up from the shop. I was quoted a price before the job started and he stayed on course. It took four months to strip the car to bare metal, block and sand and paint as well as new glass and engine re-paint. The owner of the shop (Ray Donch) did not want a deposit or payment installments throughout the job. Mike at Ray Donch Body Werks did and excellent job and would not hesitate to use him again.

Best way I think is to set an amount & timeline. Let me know when I hit say 2000$ and show me what you did for that amount before you move on. If they're not willing to do that I feel they are being to shady.

I know exactly where you're coming from. From my experience there was zero professionalism from the previous shops I've worked with. I run my own business and wouldn't have a single customer if i worked like these shops do. Sadly there isn't much you can do except pack up and either find another shop or DIY. One shop i worked with wouldn't even go thru what they did for the amount they were billing me for. When i challenged them on it they got verbally abusive and told me to remove my car from the shop. Uhh, thanks buddy...i just gave you over $10K and I think I'm entitled to know what that got me. There is no restoration police to come to the rescue, its the wild west out there.

after taking all the advice on here I took a trip back down to my restoration shop and said ok lets all talk, everyone got in a circle and I said if I go to the bank and take out a loan to pay you my past due balance "which is really not past due" and pay you for all the rest of the parts to complete my project up front, pay the engine builder for assembly and dyno "up front" and 1/2 the labor to finish the car "up front" I want my car done in the next 2 to 3 weeks so I can drive it this fall yet and get the bugs out, will this be a problem? if so I can pay you for what I owe you and take the car and finish it myself or have it done elsewhere, it is totally up to you. otherwise there is no sense in me paying interest and it can be slowly finished this winter, sure no problem was my answer!! when I was down there the whlole bottom side of it is done, fuel system plumbed, wiring done, all suspension and brakes done, headliner half done, so bassicly all that is left is to install the interior,engine/trans and driveshaft and the few other odds and ends like weathertrip and so on. sure as hell, 4 weeks later here I sit, took out a loan, paid them a TON of $ and the engine is still sitting on the stand, interior is still not installed, driveshaft is probably not even ordered yet and I look on there page and there is picks of other projects moving along at a very fast pace compared to mine, all I can say is WOW........... sorry to vent but I had nowhere else to do it and I don't want my poor dog thinking im yelling at him when I get home and am rambling to myself lol

I feel for you man. Did you take any pics along the way?

What is the name of this shop?

here we go again!!! 3 months after I started this post im in the same spot with a little more progress on the car, engine guy got the engine done but then his dyno broke, supposed to be fixed in a few weeks, 2 weeks later and its gonna be another 2 weeks. cant measure driveshaft to get made cuz engine/tranny isn't in the car, hood still isn't finished because engine isn't in car to make final cuts for blower. not to mention after taking your advice I had a "rough" quote made " I told them I wanted to be within a couple thousand of total price to finish car" and we are already 3k over the price they said and there hasn't been much more done and I still need to buy driveshaft/exhaust and whatever other odds and ends. FML is all I have to say.. do I just pull it out at this point and finish it myself. I cant take much more for false timelines and deffinatly am out of cash

I would pull the car, been through a similar situation and it was a nightmare.

jakepup said:

here we go again!!! 3 months after I started this post im in the same spot with a little more progress on the car, engine guy got the engine done but then his dyno broke, supposed to be fixed in a few weeks, 2 weeks later and its gonna be another 2 weeks. cant measure driveshaft to get made cuz engine/tranny isn't in the car, hood still isn't finished because engine isn't in car to make final cuts for blower. not to mention after taking your advice I had a "rough" quote made " I told them I wanted to be within a couple thousand of total price to finish car" and we are already 3k over the price they said and there hasn't been much more done and I still need to buy driveshaft/exhaust and whatever other odds and ends. FML is all I have to say.. do I just pull it out at this point and finish it myself. I cant take much more for false timelines and deffinatly am out of cash

Click to expand...

crappy part is ive already paid half or better "upfront" of the cost of finishing the entire car, probably gonna take ANOTHER hit there but oh well, you live and you learn I guess. too bad it has come to this these days.

MGKelly said:

I would pull the car, been through a similar situation and it was a nightmare.

Click to expand...

Tough thing to balance; especially since many shops are filled with noodnicks who watched too much Velocity TV and 'think' they can do it cause it's fun, and they like to do their own cars. Well, first off, you're up north, so, get on over to MuscleCarRestorations, John Balow is a straight shooter, no BS guy whom gave me personal and very sage advice a few yrs ago when my wife and I went up there on his invite to see his shop for a few hours; it must be run as a business!

I think the CA BAR code is awesome! I do the same thing even thought I'm not required to; my US Army training won't let me do anything other than have a tight shot group! I don't ever pre-bill way crazy like this shop did. This is a hard business as each hour worked is one hour paid unlike Body shops that hustle everyone for the maximum buck; ie they get paid to do a job in X amount of time, they do it faster; money goes in their pockets! We work one hour, make one hour's wages.

The reason they take in some many cars is cash flow -- meaning it needs to be positive! This is not a quick process, there is a lot of unknowns and unseens. If your shop didn't send the car out for professional media blasting, well, they ain't worth a darn! Sanding paint down to prep for a restoration is for beginners. A good way to do this I've actually found and not "I think" is a car comes in; disassembly is 30-40 hours, gotta buy plastic totes to store the stuff, acquire and utilize shelf space, send the car out for media blasting, the car comes back it goes into etch or epoxy primer (quality shops will likely use Epoxy) but old school painters like Etch primer, new metal is analyzed (meaning what's needed), new metal is ordered. This entire process is about $10k. So, when the car comes in, this is what you take as earnest money. Me, I snake away 2k in the bank and tell the customer this 2k is put away for when you can't pay the monthly bill, which will allow us to close the project down and you arrange to come get it, or, we store it for $65.00 per day. Then, work on the car for 20-40 hours (assuming you can get 20 hrs a week on it), keep detailed quickbooks invoices of time spent, and what was done in that time. After the 20-40 hrs send an Invoice out, some customers may have a budget per month, then it's can you afford to sit on it for 20 days a month doing no work on it?

I have very specific financial talks with customers, I have them sign a indemnity clause, mechanics lein, and contract whereas we both know what to expect. I never give hard times of when something will be done. I love sending customers details issues with detailed problems such as your inner roof rot is so bad you need a whole new one, but, I always have a solution to go to.

If you're down south, send your car over to musclerodshop.com they can do it right, slow, but awesome!

jakepup said:

crappy part is ive already paid half or better "upfront" of the cost of finishing the entire car, probably gonna take ANOTHER hit there but oh well, you live and you learn I guess. too bad it has come to this these days.

Click to expand...

So did I, if it's a bad situation you will fork over more money, not be happy with the work and possibly have valuable parts go missing.
I agree there are some goods restoration shops out there, but I'll never again hand my car over to someone else (well unless they give me keys to the shop)

Just for the sake of keeping track of my own budget and staying involved in usually order all my own parts and just pay the shop for their hourly

We bill out labor & material every month. Bills are broke down by each week, work preformed and amount of labor.
Customer pays for sheet metal order before it's placed. Just placed a $5000 order with AMD, we cant float that kind of money on a credit card for a month or two.

one week away from having car done and the battle still goes on... was quoted a total of $17,626 to finish my car, I have paid $17,363 of that amount and added $655 worth of parts and now they are telling me the engine guy went over the quote by $3000.00, plus they needed more parts for the build so now I apparently owe $22,000. I told them I'm fine if you needed some extra parts and it cost an extra $1000 but $5000?????? its not my fault the engine guy went over his quote to them, I was never contacted about any overages on the engine build and never would have ok'd it.
anyways just met with my lawyer and he says its a pretty strong case, have a few different options
ive never in my life agreed with people who are sue happy and like to get lawyers involved but what the hell does a guy do at this point? im gonna be stuck with a $7000.00 bill at the end of this and only ok'd about $2000.00 worth of it. already tried asking them if they would at least meet me in the middle of the deal and the answer is no.... somebody please give me some advice here, yes I shoulda pulled the car a long time ago but they kept talking me outa it so don't rub it in lol.

Where is this shop? Obviously they think you are a pushover and are taking advantage of you. Spread the ord so nobody else goes there and runs into problems.....