ddpsnake
Well-Known Member
looking to up grade from my stock coil too something better.what will work with my stock electronic ing , share your thought tanks.
coil up grade
- Thread starter ddpsnake
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I have been running with a PerTronix 40011 Flame Thrower coil. Car has standard Mopar orange box ignition module. Have had no problems. Orange box wants a certain resistance on the coil.
67charger383
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ddpsnake
Well-Known Member
it gives me something to think about thanks .
1.5 ohms
Bee1971
Well-Known Member
Oil Filled Canister Coils - Pick your color - Yellow / Red / Black LOL
Accel 8140 - 1.4 Ohms Primary
Edelbrock 22739 - 1.4 Ohms Primary
Pertronix 40011 like mentioned - 1.5 Ohms Primary
Standard UC 12 and Master Pro 2 - 5195 Work Just Fine
And I would assume your running a 1 OHM to 1.5 OHM Ballast Resistor in the system also
Accel 8140 - 1.4 Ohms Primary
Edelbrock 22739 - 1.4 Ohms Primary
Pertronix 40011 like mentioned - 1.5 Ohms Primary
Standard UC 12 and Master Pro 2 - 5195 Work Just Fine
And I would assume your running a 1 OHM to 1.5 OHM Ballast Resistor in the system also
Dodge 330
Well-Known Member
Never understood "upgrading" from a stock coil. We're running 10.0's in a 3, 700 lbs. car. The ignition takes the 250 shot of nitrous with ease. Stock, re-curved distributor as well.
Bee1971
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I run that O Reilly’s Master Pro Coil on my 500 HP 383/432 Stroker Motor
Standard UC 12 I have tested also fine
Starts - Idles - Perfection thru 5400 RPMs on the street
And that’s more to do with my Cam and Lifters / RPMs
Standard UC 12 I have tested also fine
Starts - Idles - Perfection thru 5400 RPMs on the street
And that’s more to do with my Cam and Lifters / RPMs
ddpsnake
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thanks Kelly thinkin about it.
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Curiosity question....WHY??? Why do you feel you need "something better"....do you have an ignition issue, either real or perceived? "If its not broke, don't fix it" msy apply....
BOB RENTON
ddpsnake
Well-Known Member
just thought a hoter spark, why do they sell msd, accel.? it got to be a better spark or are we being rip off.
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And what are the benefits of a "hotter spark" beside requiring new plug wires? Perhaps its a coordinated effort to sell more products and seperate you from your hard earned $$$ ? Or maybe its the "one upmanship" principle....."my ignition system is better than yours" because it: "makes more horse power" or I get better hot starts, lower ETs, better fuel milage, or smoother idle or __________ (fill in the blank reason). Are we (you) being "ripped off"? It depends on your view point and the perceived aspect of your investment.....if you "feel" the benefits of a "hotter spark" is worthwhile, the answer is yes.....its your car and your money.
There is no question that modern electronics has radically changed the auto industry and engine controls for the better, producing more HP, lower fuel consumption, lower emissions, better drive-ability, with innovative solutions....variable valve timing, gasoline direct injection, fuel injection, pizo electric detonation sensors, etc. But, if you want a "newer, electronic" car, buy one, instead of trying to make one. Personally, I'll leave my old 1970 GTX, with its 440 six barrel carburated engine and 4 speed and Prestolite dual point distributor, just the way it is, completely origional with lumpy idle, poor fuel milage, need for leaded fuel, AM radio, etc. Rather install a 6.2L HEMI, and all that entails, for an occasional use vehicle, I bought a new Cadillac Escalade, with all the options and capable of towing the GTX anywhere, and go down the road in style and comfort. Is this the correct solution?? It is for me.....but, only you can decide whats correct for you....just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON
Canadian1968
Well-Known Member
IMO there is nothing wrong with picking up a newer aftermarket coil to replace a tired out original one. A simple oil-filled canister coil is not going to break the bank ( $30 - $70 depending on your flavor !) .
I currently run a MSD street fire coil with my Orange MP ECU. My ballast resistor is rated at 1.0 ohm. With a internal resistance of .8 ohm in the MSD coil, this gives me a healthy 10V to my coil . It has been quite happy for over 4 years like this.
Purchasing a coil that already had an internal resistance of 1.5 ohm is actually meant for a situation where you are not using a ballast resistor. Pairing a 1.5 ohm coil WITH a 1.5 ohm ballast is going to drop your running voltage down considerably. It will run , but you are not taking full advantage of your system .
AS for your question about MSD systems. Don't get a simple coil and an all out digital ignition system confused. An MSD 6AL box used with MSD blaster 2 coil or similar is a completely different system then the factory Orange ECU. The MSD system fires multiple sparks per power stroke. The coil used in this system are usually an E-coil that allows it to do this as well.
Again a simple oil filled canister coil is not going to change the world unless of course your current coil is getting weak in knees with out you even knowing !!! Then you may feel like your new coil was the greatest single investment ever, when really its just performing how your old coil should have when it was new !!
As a few have said, if you don't really have any problems with the current setup, then leave it.
I currently run a MSD street fire coil with my Orange MP ECU. My ballast resistor is rated at 1.0 ohm. With a internal resistance of .8 ohm in the MSD coil, this gives me a healthy 10V to my coil . It has been quite happy for over 4 years like this.
Purchasing a coil that already had an internal resistance of 1.5 ohm is actually meant for a situation where you are not using a ballast resistor. Pairing a 1.5 ohm coil WITH a 1.5 ohm ballast is going to drop your running voltage down considerably. It will run , but you are not taking full advantage of your system .
AS for your question about MSD systems. Don't get a simple coil and an all out digital ignition system confused. An MSD 6AL box used with MSD blaster 2 coil or similar is a completely different system then the factory Orange ECU. The MSD system fires multiple sparks per power stroke. The coil used in this system are usually an E-coil that allows it to do this as well.
Again a simple oil filled canister coil is not going to change the world unless of course your current coil is getting weak in knees with out you even knowing !!! Then you may feel like your new coil was the greatest single investment ever, when really its just performing how your old coil should have when it was new !!
As a few have said, if you don't really have any problems with the current setup, then leave it.
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I'm well aware of the differences and how an MSD system operates. BTW....an MSD system only produces multiple spark discharges (2 or 3 per cylinder) at lower engine RPMs (around 3000 RPM and below), due to the fact that as engine RPMs increase, the TIME required to charge/discharge the capacitor that furnishes the pulse to the coil, gets shorter and shorter, to the point ONLY one pulse occurs. Do you know what an "E coil" is? Its a core form design with E and I shaped laminations and USUALLY has a lower impedance (like resistance but relates to operating frequency) that affects the rate of change that current is induced between the primary and secondary windings.
A coil does not get "weak in the knees" but, can over time and temperature variables, can develop turn to turn winding shorts, reducing the high secondary voltage or perhaps develop internal winding insulation failure resulting in no secondary voltage. Can one predict when/if this occurs....NO. but...start by making baseline determinations based on a new coil of your choice....check winding resistance, spark voltage produced and periodically check the coil in service over time/milage. BUT, perhaps, you should periodically change the coil....based on time and/or milage...like oil, or filters or spark plugs or tires.....if you so desire....its your car, your money, your time. If this gives you peace of mind, go for it. Just points to ponder......
BOB RENTON
Canadian1968
Well-Known Member
Um ok wow, my post was in no way directed to wards you at ALL Bob R. For some reason you went and attacked my entire post?
I was talking about the MSD, because the OP asked specifically about an MSD setup and why they are popular. I gave basic Operating principal description , which is it produces multiple spark, I did not get into specifics. Nor, did I get into specifics of an E coil, that was not the top of the discussion, but it is used in MSD , and other CD style or HEI setups. Was simply pointing some setup up require different components to work at their best.
You shoot down my "weak in the knees" description and then follow it by a list of faults that can develop over time in a coil that will directly effect its performance. Could you not describe that as getting "weak" sorry I do not have an English major.
Bob I would never challenge your knowledge , You have actually helped me numerous times in my own threads.
Anyway.... time to move on
I was talking about the MSD, because the OP asked specifically about an MSD setup and why they are popular. I gave basic Operating principal description , which is it produces multiple spark, I did not get into specifics. Nor, did I get into specifics of an E coil, that was not the top of the discussion, but it is used in MSD , and other CD style or HEI setups. Was simply pointing some setup up require different components to work at their best.
You shoot down my "weak in the knees" description and then follow it by a list of faults that can develop over time in a coil that will directly effect its performance. Could you not describe that as getting "weak" sorry I do not have an English major.
Bob I would never challenge your knowledge , You have actually helped me numerous times in my own threads.
Anyway.... time to move on
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Nothing derogatory intended....either expressed or implied....sorry if I gave you the wrong interpretation....
YES....I agree time to move on....but...stay safe in your endeavours and travels....enjoy your car...
Regards,
BOB RENTON
Bee1971
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Those MSD Blaster 2 Coils , didn’t work well with my Chrysler ECU
Mopar Performance ECU , or just about any
Had the epoxy version literally self destruct
Ballast - No Ballast - Different OHMS - If they where not failing all together , they would start missing above 5,000 RPMs
They are designed for CDI ignition systems , NOT Inductive ignition systems like factory
But I know some have had good luck with them so
Maybe they have the Made In The USA coils from decades ago
With that said
I just had a Pro Master O Reilly’s Oil Filled 1.5 OHM primary coil fail today at a local car show
Ran great all summer - Ran great all day
No start situation in the parking lot at A@W
Right across the street was a Bumper To Bumper
And of course I suspected the ECU first - Had a Standard Ignition spare in the trunk
No luck
Was getting ready to call Triple AAA and a flat bed
Slapped on a Standard UC12 coil from Bumper to Bumper and it fired right up as fifty people are looking over my shoulder
About a 100 Cars today
I think my 71 Bee eats Chinese Oil Filled Canister Coils for breakfast , lunch , dinner , snacks
These Chinese Oil Filled Canister Coils are pure junk - JUNK
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