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Installing Hydroboost and bigger brakes in a 1970 Charger

bohochg said:
I'm in the process of putting Hydro boost on my 71 Charger.

I'm seeing concerns that the Saginaw pump is not up to powering both the power steering & the hydro boost pump.

Is it a pressure issue, or a fluid volume/capacity issue?

Could it be a problem with the fluid becoming aerated?

I'm not working from a kit but have assembled my own system with help from a friend that built his own system for his big block Chevelle.

His brakes & power steering work just fine at any speed. Brakes especially.

He put a bulkhead fitting in the power steering pump housing for a 2nd return line.

One other thing he did was use the transmission cooler already mounted to the front of his radiator as the power steering fluid cooler.

Could the extra capacity from the transmission cooler be helping this issue?
Click to expand...
Is the reservoir full ,has it got foam in it turn the steering from side to side a few times ,let it rest for a couple of hours so the foam dissipates.
Are the steering pump & Hydro boost lines connected correctly .Place the return line in a container & run it there fluid coming out the return line. I have 2 home built systems that after a lot of messing around work correctly.
 
I'm guessing those were questions?
In my case, I had no foaming. I had none of the groaning a pump makes when it can't meet the demands of the steering. No belt slip.
I tried a few of the bleeding procedures but no matter what I did, I never got brake assist and the steering assist faded to almost nothing, requiring me to change pumps. Each time a pump crapped out, I had to pull the pump out of the reservoir and put another pump into that reservoir. It was tedious and annoying. I did find a kink in the power steering fluid cooler that is plumbed through the return line. I've driven a few thousand miles now since and several thousand miles before the hydroboost attempt and have had no problems with the steering assist.
 
I have been asked before if I had the hydraulic lines plumbed correctly.
For some strange reason, last night this topic popped into my head as I lay down to sleep and I could not shake it.
It was 2022 when I tried Hydroboost in my car, repeatedly ran into trouble and eventually removed, boxed and shipped it to someone else who somehow got it figured out.
THAT annoyed me....to lose and not to know what I did wrong.
Take a look at these pictures and tell me what you think.

HB 1R.JPG


During the mock up, I was trial fitting the pressure hoses before crimping, The steering box pressure port is next to the engine, the return is nearest the fender. Above, you can see the return line plumbed forward toward the inline cooler. Note how the pressure line to the steering box also runs to the Hydroboost, connecting to the port on the fender side.

HB 1U.JPG


HB 1T.JPG


It seems unlikely that I had it wrong but the details are a bit fuzzy since it was 3 years ago. I ran from the pressure port of the pump to the Hydroboost unit port on the engine side. Is it possible that I have it plumbed backwards?

HB 1V.JPG


HB 1W.jpeg


To repeat, I went through 3 or more pumps in the attempt to make this work. In all three instances, I'd install the pump and the steering assist would work okay at first while I tried to bleed out the system to the brakes. Slowly as I tried in vain to improve the brakes, the steering assist would get worse and worse until it barely worked at all. The brakes never gained any assist, the pedal remained hard with no improvement or change.
Could it have been this simple all along?
 
Greg, is it possible to share this question and photos with the person who you sold the hydroboost to that got it working?
Also, maybe a good idea to share this with the hydroboost manufacturer.
 
Looking at that graphic, it shows the pressure port on the pump running to the HB unit on the side with the accumulator cannister. I had mine run on the other side.

HB 1W.jpeg


Could it be this simple?
I did ask the recipient of the HB unit how it worked out and he was vague and non descriptive about it, as if either he had it done and knew few of the details or simply didn't care enough to elaborate to help out a fellow car guy.
I hate that ****...it reminded me of being a kid and wanting to get better at something and running into older kids that just brushed me off.
Dr Diff tried to help but in fairness, I was acting as the research and development lab and he looked to me to develop answers for it. That is why it was free to me.
I am not looking to install one of these any time soon. I was just wracking my brain about it and had trouble sleeping.
 
Kern Dog said:
Looking at that graphic, it shows the pressure port on the pump running to the HB unit on the side with the accumulator cannister. I had mine run on the other side.

View attachment 1955965

Could it be this simple?
I did ask the recipient of the HB unit how it worked out and he was vague and non descriptive about it, as if either he had it done and knew few of the details or simply didn't care enough to elaborate to help out a fellow car guy.
I hate that ****...it reminded me of being a kid and wanting to get better at something and running into older kids that just brushed me off.
Dr Diff tried to help but in fairness, I was acting as the research and development lab and he looked to me to develop answers for it. That is why it was free to me.
I am not looking to install one of these any time soon. I was just wracking my brain about it and had trouble sleeping.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, maybe there's some internal valving in the hydroboost to compensate before it gets to the pump...
 
Dwayne, it looks like you're right.

1764744879694.png


The Dr Diff site confirms it.

1764744914593.png


I should have plumbed the pressure line from the pump to the side nearest the engine, # A.
I was pressurizing # B. I don't know why I never tried to reverse the lines to see if it would have worked. This makes me wonder if I should try again.
Jigsaw has manual brakes....

Jiggy x1.JPG
 
68 Sport Satellite said:
I think you already know the answer....:)
Click to expand...
Confirmation helps, though.
Today at the junkyard, I looked at a few trucks/vans that had Hydroboost. I'm embarrassed but relieved at the same time. I found that in fact, I was plumbed backwards. I had pressure going in where it is supposed to be coming out. Here is proof:
This Chevy Astro had a similar hydraulic arrangement as the unit I had. When facing the windshield, there is one port at 10:00.

HB 10 F.jpg


Arrow...

HB 10 G.jpg


That line runs down and attaches to the pressure fitting at the back of the pump.

HB 10 H.jpg


For that 10:00 port, I was connected to the steering box. It is a wonder that I got steering assist at all.
Back to the junkyard....
At the 2:00 position are two more ports, one threaded and the other is just a hose nipple.

HB 10 J.jpg


The hard line changes to a hose, then runs down and connects to the steering box.

HB 10 L.jpg


This probably explains the reason why I wasn't able to get mine to work. I admit, the inline cooler I have did have a nipple end that had a slight kink to it so that surely didn't help.
I may try a Junkyard HB setup on Jigsaw....

000Eaz.JPG


If I like it, that opens the door to try it on the red car...

000 E.JPG


I gave up when I did without exhausting all avenues. I admit I was also dealing with a fresh rebuild and wanted to get some miles on the car. I sort of wimped out and went back to what worked before.
Cheers
 
Last edited:
On my GTX the pressure line from the pump goes to the port nearest to the accumulator, pressure out to the steering gear is on the opposite side. The return is low pressure and ties into the PS return line using a T fitting. The return from the hydro boost has to be connected to the vertical branch of the T, you wouldn’t think it would make a difference, but it does.

It’s now the best stopping vehicle I’ve ever driven…

image.jpg
 
I'm currently putting together a hydro boost system for my 71 Charger.

I plan on using a smaller 2 row transmission cooler to cool the power steering fluid.

As the cooler is fed by from the return line, should I be concerned with the location of the cooler.

Would it matter if its above/below/level the power steering pump?

I'm also thinking above adding a stand-alone reservoir under the battery tray, for extra capacity.
 
In another car, I put the cooler along the frame rail below the battery tray. It's purpose is to shed heat so I'd think it would be most effective if it were in the path of moving air but anything helps.
 
Kern Dog said:
In another car, I put the cooler along the frame rail below the battery tray. It's purpose is to shed heat so I'd think it would be most effective if it were in the path of moving air but anything helps.
Click to expand...
Is overheated p/s fluid a thing down there? See a fair amount of talk about coolers.
 
Kern Dog said:
In another car, I put the cooler along the frame rail below the battery tray. It's purpose is to shed heat so I'd think it would be most effective if it were in the path of moving air but anything helps.
Click to expand...
That was my car with the PS cooler under the battery tray as I had requested due to available room when you helped me install the new Borgeson PS box, but I kept my old remanufactured Saginaw PS pump that has about 7K miles on it. KD knows the rest, but I'll retell the story for others here - then, a few months ago after a 5hr round trip drive between KD's house and mine (all highway 70mph, California autumn weather with about 75F outside temp), upon exiting the highway my PS pump overheated and I had almost zero PS assist at the offramp loop and subsequent low speed turns, but it would come back up with some throttle. I haven't had time to drive it since, but I'm going to swap in a new pump. I'm also wondering if I should also relocate that PS cooler over into some airflow.
 
Speaking of Hydraboost and coolers, the 72 Challenger I'm working on has the cooling lines going through the radiator where the trans would normally be. Trans has a separate cooler. Its a HydraTech unit.
 
bohochg said:
I'm currently putting together a hydro boost system for my 71 Charger.

I plan on using a smaller 2 row transmission cooler to cool the power steering fluid.

As the cooler is fed by from the return line, should I be concerned with the location of the cooler.

Would it matter if its above/below/level the power steering pump?

I'm also thinking above adding a stand-alone reservoir under the battery tray, for extra capacity.
Click to expand...

The hydro boost system doesn’t require extra capacity, what would you expect to accomplish?
 
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