4 speed racers questions???

[cj's mopar]

I have couple questions please for the guys who run in the 10-11 second range .
Do.you run a.Fork.boot on the bell housing or no boot?
Do you run gear oil or Syncromaxx fluid in the a833.
Just looking to set up car.for best qtr Mile times I can get .
Also do you guys want trans levers to be tight or loose fitting where the rods com through?
Stock hemi 4 speed . Rebuilt.
I am sure lots of people do thing to help with 4 speeds . Just wondering.
Please don't tell me to run a auto trans .
We want to do the best we can with the banger .

 

[gkent]

Fork boot is unnecessary weight for a racer !!!

 

[dvw]

Yhe linkage needs to be as tight and slop free as possible. You can add stop bolts to the factory Hurst unit by drilling and tapping the housing. Assuming you are going to retain the blocker rings and stock style servos. I've found if the sliders and hubs are smooth and loose (worn with no burrs) the trans shifts really quick. You can pull on the shifter as hard as you want under load, it won't move. Just tapping the clutch allows it to come out of gear. It'll go into the next gear regardless of clutch posistion if you move the shifter quick enough. Relaeasing the throttle is unnecesary. Unless it's on street tires. Then this will cause excessive wheel spin on the shift. It may not recover traction until 3rd or 4th gear. Standard 85/140 gear oil works fine for me. No reason to leave the boot out. But track only I wouldn't worry either way.
Doug

 

[gkent]

Also do you guys want trans levers to be tight or loose fitting where the rods com through?

You want those tight but not binding. If you're talking about the rectangular levers, those will bottom on the shift levers so tight will be fine and not bind.

I like sharp new brass syncros. As for the syncro teeth on the sliders and gears, I've never owned any that were perfect. I take a "tootsie roll" and remove the roughness. I round over the lead in edge of the center "roostercomb" on both levers - this will make shifts smooth like a hot knife through butter.

 

[cj's mopar]

I appreciate the tips , not sure I am familiar with the term roostercomb.
Are you referring to the lead edge of the shift gate levers in the center of the th Hurst shifter?

 

[gkent]

The roostercombs are the shift mechanisms inside the trans on th the side covers. See the red circled areas - I round these over so the detent ball rolls over easier.

 

[Rebelrouser]

It depends how serious you are about racing and how many RPM's you expect to shift at. The pictured side cover is what is called detent and interlock system, gives you feel of when the gear has been engaged and keeps the transmission from trying to go into two gears at once. I would be very careful grinding the rooster comb very much. Getting a 4-speed hung in two gears at speed would be a disaster, might even wreck the car, as it locks the transmission solid.

Back in the day I raced a 48 Anglia with a 340 4-speed. Used a 10 lb aluminum flywheel, and a vertical gate Hurst shifter and had the transmission pro-shifted. Direct Connection bible would talk about slick shifting where you ground off every other tooth on the synchronizer. Proshifting was the next step, you sent off your gears, and they removed the stock synchronizer hub and welded on a lug ring. Had to shift fast and hard even at low speeds but you never missed a gear. **** rods were all redone with hiem joints you want them smooth with no play.

The other secret is that you want a clutch that slips just a little to cut down on breakage, I used a three-puck brass disc. I ran that car 10 years and never broke any of the drive train, it ran low 10's high 9's back in the 1980's

 

[cj's mopar]

Thanks for the Awesome info!

 

[Air grabbler]

Rebelrouser is right on the money. Let me expand a little on what he wrote:

First thing: call McCloud and get a soft locker clutch on order. It will take several months to arrive. If you insist on running an 18 spline, call Liberty’s Gears and order a set of face-plated gears, new sliders, and their modified shift fork. The leadtime on the trans parts will be about as long as the clutch. In the meantime, use a dial indicator to minimize run-out on your scatter shield.

Install a clutch switch and two (or three) step.

I embarked on this journey last year and am learning a lot from the stick shift racers here in the NW. Stick shift racing is a lot of fun and is growing in popularity, at least in my neck of the woods.

PS. Retain the clutch fork boot if possible. Out here we often pit in the grass, so anything you can do to reduce dust is worth doing.

 

[weedburner]

Should be able to shave several tenths off a 1.94 60' with your existing dual friction clutch just by installing a 'tamer on your clutch pedal. More HP to get the car moving along with less wear/tear on your 18spl 833.
Several tenths in the 60' is worth quite a bit more in the 1/4.

Grant

 

[padam]

Should be able to shave several tenths off a 1.94 60' with your existing dual friction clutch just by installing a 'tamer on your clutch pedal. More HP to get the car moving along with less wear/tear on your 18spl 833.
Several tenths in the 60' is worth quite a bit more in the 1/4.

Grant

This will also help that trans live a little longer.

Most of the stick cars I see in the 10 second range are using aftermarket transmissions. Well, at least big boy cars like ours

 

[padam]

Stick shift racing is the art of spending thousands of dollars and countless hours trying to get your car to leave and shift like it has an automatic.

 

[BSB67]

Should be able to shave several tenths off a 1.94 60' with your existing dual friction clutch just by installing a 'tamer on your clutch pedal.

Thanks. Who makes, or who do you recommend for a “tamer”.

 

[padam]

Weedburner makes a couple of really good ones. I use the mechanical type.

Bangshift Billy is another hydraulic one.

 

[weedburner]

When launching a stick car, either the tires have to slip or clutch has to slip until the car gains enough ground speed to allow the clutch to lock up without pulling the engine below where it makes power.

Old school thinking was a stick car needed a couple revolutions of tire slip during launch to keep rpm up. You generally had to hit the tires hard enough to break them loose, from there chase air pressure and launch rpm to get just the right amount of tire slip to keep the engine from falling below its torque peak.

Problem is the old school tire slip method doesn't work with radials. With dead hooking radials, the clutch needs to hit softer to prevent pulling the engine down too fast. The softer hit leads to longer lasting tires, less wear/tear on the drivetrain, and less need to chase track conditions.

One way to keep a dead hook from pulling the engine below its torque peak is a centrifugal assist clutch, as these clutches are typically set up to slip against WOT below the engine's torque peak. The higher you launch with centrifugal assist the harder the clutch hits, so the quickest launch with a radial and centrifugal assist clutch is usually all the rpm the combo can handle short of spinning the tires.

Another way to keep a dead hook from pulling the engine down below its torque peak during launch is to use a ClutchTamer. A 'tamer allows you to slow how fast the clutch pulls the engine down against WOT, giving the car more time to gain ground speed before the clutch locks up. That softer hit in-turn allows you to launch higher than you would be able to with a centrifugal assist clutch, allowing you to take advantage of packing more inertia energy into the engine's rotating assy before the clocks start running.

For a street/strip car, a centrifugal assist clutch can be a huge pain in the ***. Settings for the track that allow the clutch to slip below its torque peak are generally too loose to allow using any power during lower rpm casual driving. If you don't want to downshift to pass someone on the highway, you will need to swap back and forth between street and track settings with a centrifugal assist clutch. With a 'tamer controlling the clutch hit instead of centrifugal assist, there is no need to change clutch settings for casual driving.

Grant

 

[cj's mopar]

This is very good info guys .
Now I see why so many switch to the auto trans . Because of the work involved in stick shift cars going fast .

 

[padam]

This is very good info guys .
Now I see why so many switch to the auto trans . Because of the work involved in stick shift cars going fast .

If your goal is having fun drag racing I don’t think you can beat a stick shift car.

If you go down the rabbit hole of trying to win at bracket racing it can get frustrating. Weedburner can give you enough math and physics to make your head spin. When you get it right and the car comes off the line with the right amount of slip to keep the engine happy and parts from breaking there’s nothing like it!
But man I’ve had a hard time keeping that happy point where it needs to be to win consistently.

I’m sure my problem is I need more power. Here we go…