440 Build -- What would you do?

[jenkins71]

Hi guys-- as some of you may see on my other threads, I am rebuilding my 440 for my Charger. My intended use is as a cruiser with maybe an occasional trip to the strip.
I want good low-mid range power, am okay with some rough idle characteristics, and as much gas mileage as I can get (I know it won't be much with a 440).

I am thinking about build options and considering budget vs. compression ratio.
I will be using a head gasket with .045 compressed thickness.

Using the components I have, I.E. my current .030 over bore, my 452 unmilled heads (yes I have cc'ed them), and my L2266 flat top pistons (with new rings and bearings, my bore taper is well within spec, just needs a hone), my stats are as follows, with careful measurements:

CURRENT SET UP

Bore: 4.35
Stroke: 3.75
Cylinder Head Volume: 96cc
Deck Clearance: .0991
Compressed Gasket Thickness: .045
Compression Ratio : 7.97 : 1

Obviously pretty dismal compression ratio.

So, in considering the longevity of this rebuild, combined with upping my compression and considering budget, I have come up with a few options.

___________________________________________________________________________

OPTION 1: Swap 452 heads for a pair of 915 heads from Aerohead Racing.

Bore: 4.35
Stroke: 3.75
Cylinder Head Volume: 78cc
Deck Clearance: .0991
Compressed Gasket Thickness: .045
Compression Ratio : 9.08 : 1

$600 Aerohead 915's, loaded
$0 re-use pistons
$100 hone job
TOTAL: $700

___________________________________________________________________________

OPTION 2: Mill current 452 heads .040 to lower cylinder head cc's to an estimated 86.48cc

Bore: 4.35
Stroke: 3.75
Cylinder Head Volume: 86.48cc
Deck Clearance: .0991
Compressed Gasket Thickness: .045
Compression Ratio : 8.49 : 1

$120 Head Mill
$100 Hone job
$220

___________________________________________________________________________

OPTION 3: Change to Aerohead 915, bore an extra .010 to reach a .040 oversize bore, fit a set of TRW "9.5:1" forged piston/rod balanced set found on craigslist for $250

Estimated compression ratio: 9.5 : 1

$600 Aeroheads
$250 bore and hone
$250 second hand piston/rod set
$1100

 

[texas69bee]

You could zero deck it, use a .030 gasket use all your current parts and end up with 9.84 for compression.

 

[jenkins71]

You could zero deck it, use a .030 gasket use all your current parts and end up with 9.84 for compression.

To zero deck it, I would have to take .0991 off the block since that's how much the piston sits in the hole at TDC... Seems like an awful lot, and then you run into intake fitting problems and maybe even valve train geometry issues?

Also, I should add, If I reuse the 452's, the must be resurface due to a head gasket failure which means i can count on $120 just to reuse the heads.

Thanks!

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

They ain't cheap, but keep in mind you could use Cometic .027" head gasket to gain some CR. Also using Craigslist balanced piston/rods still mean you need to re-balance with your crank = extra $...

3 different people will likely have 3 different opinions on which way to go..

If it were me, and the pistons/bore are good, I would stick with it and do 915 heads and thinner gasket.

High CR is not the be all and end all for good torque/power. Choose the right cam, and if the heads flow well, with a good intake and exhaust it will be great..

 

[747mopar]

I built a 451" using the 452 heads, flat top pistons and had it decked to zero deck height for a compression ratio of 9.8:1. I did end up milling the intake as you mentioned and had my heads cc'd as well (88 if I remember correctly. If it were me low compression would be a definite no no if your going for performance and would just take your time to round up the needed funds. You might want to have the heads checked out first, mine ended up needing everything and I should have just bought a new set instead. Good luck

 

[Banzaiii67]

My 516 heads were 82cc's some are know to be as big as 84cc's. My 516's with a steel shim head gasket got me to 9.1:1.

I would be shocked if Aerohead actually had 915 cores, they are VERY hard to find for a reasonable price (between $300-500 just for bare cores, no valves) i would put money Aerohead is using 516 cores unless you know someone there.

 

[jenkins71]

http://www.aeroheadracing.com/chrysler-heads/

This link says 516-915 ..... Not sure...

 

[IQ52]

Let me see, what would I do? Well if I pump up the compression one point and I have a 400HP engine to start with I will now be at 412-416HP. If I do nothing but put on another set of cylinder heads that gives me another 25 cfm I will gain 50-60HP.

You guys figure it out........I'm going back to work on the 572 Hemi.

 

[super-bee_ski]

KOOL IQ52...
Your "the man"

I'm following your info and building my GTX 440 with that in mind!

 

[jenkins71]

Well, I just put a call in to Aerohead to inquire about the 915 heads. They have 3 pairs ready, but they're $700, (not $599) plus shipping would be another $110 total. So that's $810 if I want the 915 heads. If I'm spending that much I guess I might be better off coughing up $1000 and going with a pair of Stealths...

Not sure if I really want to be that deep into it.

Would it be stupid to mill the 452's and deck the block? That would be $370 total with the bore, more if I have to alter the intake surfaces.

 

[super-bee_ski]

There are a set of Stealth heads on this forum right now for sale at amout $1,000
Valves/springs etc.

(I currently have a set all set to go for the 67 GTX motor)

 

[jenkins71]

There are a set of Stealth heads on this forum right now for sale at amout $1,000
Valves/springs etc.

(I currently have a set all set to go for the 67 GTX motor)

On the 440source website I think they are $500 each with free shipping...

 

[Banzaiii67]

IQ52 is pretty much on the money. You should look at his builds for inspiration.

If you going to buy new heads, I would save your money for stealths or if you really want to up your compression get the EBROCK E-Streets with 75cc.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-5090/overview/make/chrysler

 

[super-bee_ski]

As Banzaiii67 states AND guys like Propwash, Budnicks, Bruzilla, HT413 and 747mopar state:
Listen to IQ52...

Check out HT413s "My budget build 451....finally" Thread.

 

[jenkins71]

Let me see, what would I do? Well if I pump up the compression one point and I have a 400HP engine to start with I will now be at 412-416HP. If I do nothing but put on another set of cylinder heads that gives me another 25 cfm I will gain 50-60HP.

You guys figure it out........I'm going back to work on the 572 Hemi.

Hey man, I appreciate your weighing in. You have quite the reputation on here!

I guess you're saying go with the better heads... Well yeah, obviously I would love to do that but budget IS a concern for me! I'm 26 years old and about to go back to school. I'm really just trying to weigh my options and see if anyone has any opinions.

 

[Banzaiii67]

As Banzaiii67 states AND guys like Propwash, Budnicks, Bruzilla, HT413 and 747mopar state:
Listen to IQ52...

Check out HT413s "My budget build 451....finally" Thread.

Don't forget Meep or Lew, listen to those guys too

This is a good IQ52 engine build thread.
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...d-test-starting-on-78-440/page2&highlight=440

- - - Updated - - -

I guess you're saying go with the better heads... Well yeah, obviously I would love to do that but budget IS a concern for me! I'm 26 years old and about to go back to school. I'm really just trying to weigh my options and see if anyone has any opinions.

I understand where your coming from it took me 3 months this year to afford iron heads and 2 months to purchase mufflers and a/f gauge.. but I'd save up at least $2,000 and buy aluminum heads, get the heads checked out by a reputable shop to check clearances and quality and then buy adjustable valvetrain and be done with it. You'll just have to be patient but in the long run you'll probably be happier.

 

[jenkins71]

UPDATE!!!!

Ok, so the block is at the shop, and they're going through it, giving it a hone and squaring up the deck surfaces. I am also checking the align on the mains.

I have decided to KEEP the 452 heads, and bump my compression up with a set of L2295 pistons. I found a pair locally in my right size, very mildly used, with rods attached, for $225. Here is a link to the pistons on Summit http://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/slp-l2295f30/overview/

SO....
This means that I now have to have my crankshaft balanced, correct?

Also, the guy who had the pistons also has a crank. I think it might be forged. Here's a link the his new updated ad, with the pistons removed: http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/pts/4811964268.html

My crank seems to be fine, but I'm just wondering if it would be cheaper to just buy HIS crank if he already had it balanced. I am, however, worried about the history of the crank. Here is the copy on his ad, in case the link above doesn't work:

"RARE 69 Mopar 440 big block,Crankshaft, and many other parts as pictured.
Date coded E440 series 8 16 68
Crankshaft was recently machined rods and mains .030 and 020 due to number 3 main bearing damage as pictured. Comes with new rod and main bearings
Block casting number 2536430 10

PICK UP 10954 NY
VERY Low miles on rebuild had the bearing problem as mentioned above BUT crankshaft work HAS BEEN machined Cylinders cleaned up with honing.
Asking 1150 make offers 8456275925 Joe"

Also, if his crank is forged, that means i will need his matching damper and flexplate, correct?

Lastly, would it really be much a benefit to have a forged crank versus my current CAST crank? (my current cast crank, I will add, is .010 undersize and in good condition)

 

[multipleBs]

As you've already stated the options are many and in the end it depends mostly upon your budget, but just from experience, anything under 9.5 to 1 compression is going to feel really soft in the low end with anything but a very mild cam (assuming the engine is naturally aspirated). You never mentioned what cam you plan on running? It will determine a lot of other things.