440 camshaft question

[68Satellite440]

As an example, I have a 68 440 waiting to be built (350 hp eng with the .055 pistons) and intend on running a comp xs282(iirc), and would expect the hp #s to be in the 450++ range.
Also had a low comp 77 440, with the Mopar. 528, that I figured was in the 460 realm.
260s, and 270s cams are too small for your expectations in my opinion.

Thank you for the input. Do you have any recommendations?
I know of Comp cams, and Mopar purple cams, but I’ve heard good stuff about hughes.
How would you upgrade the 375hp motor to get in the ballpark of my goal?

 

[68Satellite440]

if you want to rev high over 5500 rpms and make HP then you really should be running a solid lifter cam. there is no down side accept needing adjustable rockers. big Joe Sherman always said hydraulic cams are for sissies lol. he said it not me

I dont plan on going that high unless racing down the highway.
Just looking to build a aggressive street rod, and I certainly don’t wanna lose any of that low end “at the red light” torque that their reputation is built on.

long tube headers
800cfm edelbrock
Port the 906 heads
Port intake to match heads
3.55 rear

What else would you add to this build to help bring power but not spending thousands more on parts and changing valve train?
Would 1.6 rockers help?

 

[RemCharger]

When you say "1.6 rockers", you do know that automatically means aftermarket adjustables right?
If you're willing to go down that road,, then I'd suggest the .528 mopar, if still available. (But 1.5s, not 1.6's )

 

[68Satellite440]

When you say "1.6 rockers", you do know that automatically means aftermarket adjustables right?
If you're willing to go down that road,, then I'd suggest the .528 mopar, if still available. (But 1.5s, not 1.6's )

Yes I understand that part my understanding was the 1.5 and 1.6 rockers were interchangeable, guess I'm wrong. I’m trying to avoid it, but if i do have to add aftermarket part I’m trying to add as little as possible. I want the car to run but not sink couple thousand more into it.

I guess im not very good at explaining my questions. I just wanna know what the first upgrades you would make to the fairly stock motor outside of what I’ve already done to increase power without having to spent thousands on upgrading everything on the entire motor.

 

[PRHeads]

Here’s another example, this one from 23 years ago:
At that time Jegs was selling some General Kinetics cams.
They had one that had the same specs as the Comp 280H.
This motor got that GK 280 cam.

446, trw L2266 pistons down the hole .090”
906 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves, nicely bowl ported
Heads milled for 9:1cr
Crane ductile rockers, 1.6 int/1.5ex
Original Torker manifold, Speed Demon carb(flows 720), 1” open spacer
1-7/8” headers

 

[RemCharger]

I had to reread the thread. Not a great way to ask a question by high jacking a dead thread. It can throw people off.

It's the 450 horse thing. Since you aren't dynoing it, you'll never know if it is, or isn't, 450. So that # is irrelevant.

From what you're asking, I would go with what was mentioned earlier, comp 274.
I built one for a customer, had barrels of torque everywhere. In fact, the car is now a total loss due to "too much torque"

There were two different oem pistons used in 68 440s(although never advertised). You will know with the heads off. The higher compression piston is about .055 down which is around 9.3. The lower compression is about .090 down which is around 8.7:1. I don't care for a 262xe in much of anything... it is detonation prone. Comp cams recommends it way to often for big blocks. A lot of the convertors back then were suppose to be 2200 were closer to 1800. With your gears and hp goals consider stepping up a size bigger to a 274. Bb isn't going to care much about a low stall with 3.55s.

 

[PRHeads]

One from 1990......

448”(.040 over), L2355’s at near zero deck, mild ported big valve 906’s, TM7 with 850DP Holley, 1” open spacer, 2” x 3.5” headers....... Crower SFT cam, 248/254-110, Crane ductile 1.5 rockers:
- this one ran mid-11’s in a 3900lb 68 Charger with 4.10’s and a TCI 10” street converter back in 1990.

This was one of the very first motors I ever dyno tested.

 

[PRHeads]

From what you're asking, I would go with what was mentioned earlier, comp 274.

Good choice.

The Crower HDP-271 is another good cam in a street 440....... but is likely a bit on the mild side for someone looking for 450hp.

 

[68Satellite440]

I had to reread the thread. Not a great way to ask a question by high jacking a dead thread. It can throw people off.

It's the 450 horse thing. Since you aren't dynoing it, you'll never know if it is, or isn't, 450. So that # is irrelevant.

From what you're asking, I would go with what was mentioned earlier, comp 274.
I built one for a customer, had barrels of torque everywhere. In fact, the car is now a total loss due to "too much torque"

I understand. I commented on this one because of the similar topic. Every other one of my attempts to ask for build advice has been inconclusive and just a bunch of pointless chatter.
I generally end up just repeating my question of what should be my first upgrades to add power to this relatively stock motor when I rebuild it.
-port 906 heads and intake
-bigger carb
-find bigger compatible cam for factory valve train otherwise spend thousands on new bigger valve train
-long tube headers
-factory stall okay? Or need upgraded

Is there any other upgrades to get the most out of this street car?

 

[PRHeads]

Step one, come up with the total budget for just the engine upgrades.

What you’re willing to spend will directly impact the choices of the parts you’ll be upgrading(or reusing).

 

[Geoff 2]

Crower was also ahead of the curve. And waaaaaaaaaaay back in the 70s.

206-HDP.

Hyd FT for 440, 2800 rpm & up, street cam. What's special about it? 105 LSA.

 

[68Satellite440]

Crower was also ahead of the curve. And waaaaaaaaaaay back in the 70s.

206-HDP.

Hyd FT for 440, 2800 rpm & up, street cam. What's special about it? 105 LSA.

What size stall would that need? Im still running the factory

 

[gtxrt]

running the factory 11 inch 383 hp converter in my 67 newport really like it over the stock 12". i would go one step bigger than stock if you have the 12". i would try that 268 cam you have. as for 1.6 rockers the xe268 cam is fast ramp so i would not use the 1.6 rockers. as for headers yes for sure. make sure you run a oil pan windage tray. am also confused you said 452 heads then you said 906 heads. first you said 6 pack then talking putting a 800 edelbrock carb on.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Thank you! See this is why I asked. I havent been able to find details like this about pistons.

If you have any other Cam recommendations for the 440s I’d love to hear it. Im not dead set on any brand or specs. I’m just trying to find the best performance and compatibility with my block and valve train without having to change out everything.
I’ll be doing a entire disassemble soon and cleanup to check for any worn parts, but looking to rebuild with my grandpa’s dream of 450hp/500+tq.

I bought the car as a project together and his health declined rapidly and I’m hustling to try to make his dreams a reality before I lose him.
If their is any necessary upgrades to get the power I’m after, I’d love to hear it.

Knowing Cam compatibility and valve train limits is still a grey area for me.
How much lift is too much? .490?
I know to stick with similar duration to factory.
The factory hp specs I found was 268/284 450/458 46 degree overlap at 115LSA
@.50 is 208/221 duration

If your planning on keeping the original valve springs you will limit yourself to a slower rate cam. A cam like the XE needs more spring pressure for valve control. Your asking for problems mismatching a cam that shuts the valves fast with a under performing spring. The spring bind height is about .503 for a oem 440 magnum spring. That is assuming everything is close to a factory spec. I would consider a comp 280h for your goals even though your oem hp springs are lighter then what comp recommends. Also buy a edelbrock performer rpm intake. Plenty of intake tests out there to a choose better intake then the iron one.
summit 6401, crower 271hdp are good street grinds. Here is the link for 280h:
COMP Cams 21-237-4 COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Camshafts | Summit Racing
We used to run the mp .474 and .484 cams w magnum springs but they have gotten expensive. I wouldn't run comps nostalgia plus cams with out changing springs.
Someday upgrade your convertor.
Edit: I didn't see post 25. PRheads.

 

[68Satellite440]

If your planning on keeping the original valve springs you will limit yourself to a slower rate cam. A cam like the XE needs more spring pressure for valve control. Your asking for problems mismatching a cam that shuts the valves fast with a under performing spring. The spring bind height is about .503 for a oem 440 magnum spring. That is assuming everything is close to a factory spec. I would consider a comp 280h for your goals even though your oem hp springs are lighter then what comp recommends. Also buy a edelbrock performer rpm intake. Plenty of intake tests out there to a choose better intake then the iron one.
summit 6401, crower 271hdp are good street grinds. Here is the link for 280h:
COMP Cams 21-237-4 COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Camshafts | Summit Racing
We used to run the mp .474 and .484 cams w magnum springs but they have gotten expensive. I wouldn't run comps nostalgia plus cams with out changing springs.
Someday upgrade your convertor.

Thank you a bunch. This is the kind of feedback i need to understand what to do.
If i was to upgrade springs, do you have a brand referral?
Im assuming springs are interchangeable with the factory ones? I dont have to change retainer or anything?

Also what stall rating would be the next step up and be compatible? Do you have a brand suggestion?

 

[RemCharger]

I understand. I commented on this one because of the similar topic. Every other one of my attempts to ask for build advice has been inconclusive and just a bunch of pointless chatter.
I generally end up just repeating my question of what should be my first upgrades to add power to this relatively stock motor when I rebuild it.
-port 906 heads and intake
-bigger carb
-find bigger compatible cam for factory valve train otherwise spend thousands on new bigger valve train
-long tube headers
-factory stall okay? Or need upgraded

Is there any other upgrades to get the most out of this street car?

Step one, come up with the total budget for just the engine upgrades.

What you’re willing to spend will directly impact the choices of the parts you’ll be upgrading(or reusing).

 

[68Satellite440]

I don’t have a dollar amount set. Thats not the issue. The issue is I dont wanna spend 5k for all the bells and whistles just to say I have fancy upgrades.
If i can spend half that and reuse or modify OEM parts to make the power im looking for then id rather do that and save the dollar.
Im asking for build advice and parts reviews, im asking for build info from people who have built 440s like im trying to do so i have some guidance. Sometimes i need stuff explained in laymans terms. I dont know all of what is compatible with Cams and valve train and stall converters. Thats why I’m asking for advice on what parts are a necessity and not just splurging.
If I can put 400+ HP to the ground with a relatively stock motor with only a few upgrades, im excited.
Im trying to make the most of what I have, not spend 10k and change out everything but the block.
Am I making any sense?

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Thank you! See this is why I asked. I havent been able to find details like this about pistons.

If you have any other Cam recommendations for the 440s I’d love to hear it. Im not dead set on any brand or specs. I’m just trying to find the best performance and compatibility with my block and valve train without having to change out everything.
I’ll be doing a entire disassemble soon and cleanup to check for any worn parts, but looking to rebuild with my grandpa’s dream of 450hp/500+tq.

I bought the car as a project together and his health declined rapidly and I’m hustling to try to make his dreams a reality before I lose him.
If their is any necessary upgrades to get the power I’m after, I’d love to hear it.

Knowing Cam compatibility and valve train limits is still a grey area for me.
How much lift is too much? .490?
I know to stick with similar duration to factory.
The factory hp specs I found was 268/284 450/458 46 degree overlap at 115LSA
@.50 is 208/221 duration

I would suggest upgrading/cutting the valve guides for Viton seals if your doing work to the heads. To keep it simple most cams companies will recommend a spring but make sure they are stock installed height. Retainers and new valve locks are usually not expensive if required, not a area to skimp. Of the hydraulic cams for a mopar we prefer the Lunati voodoo 703 or 704. Also have used several comp XE, the 274xe is between the two voodoo cams mentioned. Both brands are fast rate cams. Preferably get Hylift Johnson lifters or find some old stock lifters.
.520 you can keep with the Stamped steel rockers yet.... Longevity isn't great. if you get past .5 lift 5/16 chrome moly pushrods are a good idea.
With 3.55 a 2500 Hughes is about the cheapest I would consider. For a little more $ custom PTC

 

[68Satellite440]

I would suggest upgrading/cutting the valve guides for Viton seals if your doing work to the heads. To keep it simple most cams companies will recommend a spring but make sure they are stock installed height. Retainers and new valve locks are usually not expensive if required, not a area to skimp. Of the hydraulic cams for a mopar we prefer the Lunati voodoo 703 or 704. Also have used several comp XE, the 274xe is between the two voodoo cams mentioned. Both brands are fast rate cams. Preferably get Hylift Johnson lifters or find some old stock lifters.
.520 you can keep with the Stamped steel rockers yet.... Longevity isn't great. if you get past .5 lift 5/16 chrome moly pushrods are a good idea.
With 3.55 a 2500 Hughes is about the cheapest I would consider. For a little more $ custom PTC

I like the Voodoo 703. If I understand correctly, I’d only need 2500 stall, new lifters, and upgrade to a heavier spring? Thank you again for helping me

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Voodoo 703 in a 440 isn't going to care much about what stall your running with 3.55s.