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440 hydraulic lifter styles- please educate me

Sonny

It’s all fun til the rabbit gets the gun.
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My 440 rebuild will use a subtle summit cam sum-6401, 440 source heads, kb237 pistons, stock stamped rockers and stock solid pushrods. Nothing radical. I don’t want another set of comp lifters so looking at sealed power lifters but there are many other designs- 2 rings, 1 ring, center hole, no hole, etc. Which style do I need?
Thanks
Sonny
 
My 440 rebuild will use a subtle summit cam sum-6401, 440 source heads, kb237 pistons, stock stamped rockers and stock solid pushrods. Nothing radical. I don’t want another set of comp lifters so looking at sealed power lifters but there are many other designs- 2 rings, 1 ring, center hole, no hole, etc. Which style do I need?
Thanks
Sonny
You may already be aware of this, but whatever lifters you choose when using stock stamped rockers be sure to use the correct length pushrods to obtain the proper preload as suggested by the manufacturer.
 
Never heard anything good about Summit camshafts really and i would never pick one.
I would go for a Hughes Engines cam and use their lifters instead, you will highly likely need custom length push rods due to height difference on the lifters but you can use Smith Bro's who manufacture push rods in any size and type.
It will be a more reliable setup and a less chances of a flattened cam or worn lifter.
 
I was recently told by Dwayne Porter that Johnson Hylift are the only lifters made in the USA, if that matters to you.
 
Never heard anything good about Summit camshafts really and i would never pick one.
I would go for a Hughes Engines cam and use their lifters instead, you will highly likely need custom length push rods due to height difference on the lifters but you can use Smith Bro's who manufacture push rods in any size and type.
It will be a more reliable setup and a less chances of a flattened cam or worn lifter.
I installed a K6401 Summit cam and lifter set into my 440. It was highly suggested by my machinist and engine builder guy. Not one problem out of the cam so far. Besides there are only a few companies that make cams any more and chances are most of them are made by the same company.
 
Never heard anything good about Summit camshafts really and i would never pick one.
I would go for a Hughes Engines cam and use their lifters instead, you will highly likely need custom length push rods due to height difference on the lifters but you can use Smith Bro's who manufacture push rods in any size and type.
It will be a more reliable setup and a less chances of a flattened cam or worn lifter.
My brother had one in his 440 and it ran great. Nice amount of torque at 2,500 rpm. No issues with the lifters.
His only problem was that he was closer to 10.5:1 with iron heads and he couldn't eliminate the predetonation. Otherwise it would still be in use.
 
Oh well, i've read quite some negative advise about them, good to hear there is some positive ones as well.

Besides there are only a few companies that make cams any more and chances are most of them are made by the same company.
Yeah that could be indeed.

But, Hughes Engines has a warranty program in case of failure:
https://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/ourcamsareguaranteednottogoflat.php

For me it would not matter, since they can not ship me their oil and return shipping would be more costly than the cam but for you in the US this could be paying itself in case you do end up with a flattened cam.
 
Oh well, i've read quite some negative advise about them, good to hear there is some positive ones as well.


Yeah that could be indeed.

But, Hughes Engines has a warranty program in case of failure:
https://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/ourcamsareguaranteednottogoflat.php

For me it would not matter, since they can not ship me their oil and return shipping would be more costly than the cam but for you in the US this could be paying itself in case you do end up with a flattened cam.

From what I gather buy it all from us or we don't guarantee it. Price point is crucial What if you already have a set of lifters and springs 173.00 for just a cam.
Then you must use their break in oil, lifters, springs..

Summit price for the K6401 including lifters. 155.00

Their price for a cam, lifters and valve springs.$413.40 Plus you have to use their break in oil. Sooo add a few bucks for that too.

Some of their fine print...
To be eligible for the guarantee you must purchase the cam, springs, lifters and break-in oil all at one time on one invoice.

Here is summits warranty.

Warranty
Summit Racing Equipment® warrants this product for one year from the date of purchase. If the product is used for racing or competition, this warranty is limited to manufacturer defects only; wear and breakage are not covered under any circumstances. If the product shows, in our opinion, evidence of being used or installed contrary to the instructions and/or subjected to improper handling, packaging, or shipping by the customer, it will not be covered by our limited warranty. The liability to Summit Racing Equipment® for losses or damages arising out of any cause whatsoever is limited to the full refund of the purchase price or, at our option, repair or replacement of the product(s). Summit Racing Equipment® shall not be liable for any consequential or incidental damages. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of consequential or incidental damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.
 
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Yes with Hughes Engines it would be mainly beneficial if you had to buy all parts new.
And you have to go with certain lifters and springs that the cam is designed for to ensure proper operation and spring tension. (Does Summit state any recommended spring tensions or any other requirements on the cam card?)

I know price is quite different, though by going cheap options it would be nice to know all customers were satisfied.
But in cases with bad comments you also never will really know, was it the material that failed or bad installation/installation recommendation not followed.
Its always hard to tell, each story has 2 sides :)

Summit has mentioned , "in their opinion" which can go any direction, regardless what happened to it.
Warranty is most of the time only valid until the shop front doorstep, beyond that it is yours.
 
Yes with Hughes Engines it would be mainly beneficial if you had to buy all parts new.
And you have to go with certain lifters and springs that the cam is designed for to ensure proper operation and spring tension. (Does Summit state any recommended spring tensions or any other requirements on the cam card?)

I know price is quite different, though by going cheap options it would be nice to know all customers were satisfied.
But in cases with bad comments you also never will really know, was it the material that failed or bad installation/installation recommendation not followed.
Its always hard to tell, each story has 2 sides :)

Summit has mentioned , "in their opinion" which can go any direction, regardless what happened to it.
Warranty is most of the time only valid until the shop front doorstep, beyond that it is yours.
Summit does say something about springs. But when I was building my engine I had already planned to do the K6401 so the heads were setup by my machine guy. Pretty sure they were just standard valve springs. or whatever 452 heads have on them. He checked the spring pressure and they were within the range... K6401 is not a long duration cam its actually kind of tame. Here is my 440 with the K6401 running on my test stand.



K6401 Cam specs..
Summit Racing Part Number:
SUM-K6401
UPC:
190861126657
Cam Style:
Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range:
2,000-5,500
Camshaft Use:
Street/Strip
Camshaft Manufacturers Description:
Fair idle, good midrange power camshaft. Requires 9.5:1 and higher compression, 2,000+ stall, and gearing. Good mild bracket racing cam.
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
234
Duration at 050 inch Lift:
224 int./234 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:
298
Advertised Exhaust Duration:
303
Advertised Duration:
298 int./303 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.466 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.488 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.466 int./0.488 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees):
114
Camshaft Gear Attachment:
1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible:
No
Lifters Included:
Yes
Lifter Style:
Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included:
No
Retainers Included:
No
Locks Included:
No
Valve Stem Seals Included:
No
Timing Chain and Gears Included:
No
Assembly Lubricant Included:
Yes
Pushrods Included:
No
Rocker Arms Included:
No
Gaskets Included:
No
Valve Springs Required:
Yes
Quantity:
Sold as a kit.
Notes:
Single-bolt camshaft. The lifters in this kit will only work in 1968 and newer big block engines.
 
Hahaha!! Not a single answer to the OP's question!!!

Good job
 
Hahaha!! Not a single answer to the OP's question!!!

Good job
The op stated he didn't want to use comp lifters. I'm currently using them with no issues so I personally can't really give an answer based on experience with a different manufacturer. What would you suggest?
 
So I guess the individual lifter design differences don’t matter?
 
I have a 6401 and Summit lifters in a 440 with stamp steel rockers and love it. About 4000 miles so far.
 
The K6401 cam and lifter set says 67 and up big blocks. Prior to that they used tapered end pushrods. The set that come with the k6401 cam are for the fatter normal pushrods. So when reading the description for the cam it will confuse people. But to answer the op question is that it’s luck of the draw on lifters. Had good luck with the summit stuff so far. There was a set of lifters for sale on this forum NOS pre 2000 lifters. Those would be pre shitty manufacturing.
 
My 440 rebuild will use a subtle summit cam sum-6401, 440 source heads, kb237 pistons, stock stamped rockers and stock solid pushrods. Nothing radical. I don’t want another set of comp lifters so looking at sealed power lifters but there are many other designs- 2 rings, 1 ring, center hole, no hole, etc. Which style do I need?
Thanks
Sonny

The Sealed Power HT976 is what we have been using..... NO issues.

Sounds like a very good combination, I believe you may be quite surprised with the midrange Trq and HP.

I consider the SUMMIT 6401 to be an excellent factory HP Exhaust Manifolds Cam using the wide LSA.
We've done a few "Machine Pkgs" for customers using that Cam... we didn't assemble or we'd have Dyno'd them ? which we did not so I can't forward any actual numbers.
But I did accept a ride in one from a Customer after he assembled and installed his 440 that we machined..... and I can honestly say IMO, the 6401 was about 'as good as it gets'.
The damn thing pulled like a freight train through factory HP Manifolds ?
quite surprising, right up through I'm guessing 4,500's rpm shifting by itself left in "D" through 3.23's.

The 6401 only requires 110 Lb seat pressure with 280'ish over the nose, which is a good fit for easy break in on the Stealth Heads typically supplied at low 130's seat and 280-285'ish @ .500" lift.
Get the Stealth Heads checked over...... we've seen a few sets lately with seat contacts slightly 'high' up on the Valve, which Flows very well to .300" but suffers any higher.
Our preference is to move the 45* seat down closer to the edge of the Valve for general street use and apply a backcut.

As time permits in the near future....
we plan on machining/building and Dyno'ing a 440 through factory HP Manifolds using the SUMMIT 6401 for some real world test data
 
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So to narrow down my question, with solid pushrods do I get lifters with the top oiling hole or not?
Thanks
 
Don't they all have a hole? HT976 is what the man prescribed .
You don't have pushrod oiling so it shouldn't matter either way.
 
Mopar engines (non magnum) oil thru the rocker shaft, so no need to have a hole in the lifter. That said, it doesn't hurt anything if the lifters come with one.

Mark
 
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