440 stock intake; whats the best carb choice .....

[RJRENTON]

I totally agree. For those that really "get" the Carter style, they sure work. My problem was every AVS, I tried to rebuild failed. I understood Holley's & had good luck with most(not all) with rebuilding. I remain a Holley guy. I had a new aftermarket Carter AFB on my tow vehicle 360. Worked fantastic for a long time. The 3310-1 choke took a little tweaking, then great. Over time a little a little adjustment needed.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with an aftermarket (perhaps an "Eddy") Carter AFB on your 360 engine. Not to be facious regarding your problems, perhaps I should conduct a class in Carter carb (both AFB & AVS) operation, their different circuits, short comings, fixes, metering components, etc. (Believe me....I'm not an expert by any means, l just like to know how things work and why)......just thinking out loud....
BOB RENTON

 

[BSB67]

The change in CFM rating came from the switch from the thin throttle blades to the thicker conventional thickness.

The -1 had down leg boosters. The 4160's did not

 

[RJRENTON]

The -1 had down leg boosters. The 4160's did not

Correct...in addition, the 4150 R-3310-1 had a secondary metering block and power valve. The Holley 4160 R-3310-*** had a secondary metering plate and no power valve in the secondary metering plate (no replacable meteting jets). Plus later variations are /were available in chrome or zinc dichromate finish. There may be slight variations in primary and secondary VENTURI dimensions which may account for the CFM differences. My personal preferences is the R-3310-1 .... its just more robust.
BOB RENTON

 

[BSB67]

Correct...in addition, the 4150 R-3310-1 had a secondary metering block and power valve. The Holley 4160 R-3310-*** had a secondary metering plate and no power valve in the secondary metering plate (no replacable meteting jets). Plus later variations are /were available in chrome or zinc dichromate finish. There may be slight variations in primary and secondary VENTURI dimensions which may account for the CFM differences. My personal preferences is the R-3310-1 .... its just more robust.
BOB RENTON

I just presumed the down leg was where the flow difference came from

 

[RJRENTON]

I just presumed the down leg was where the flow difference came from

Not necessarily....the air flow is usually dimensionally dependant of the combination of the butterfly valve's bore dimension AND the respective VENTURI dimensions. The down leg booster venturii amplified the differential pressure signal's point of high velocity making it the ideal place to introduce the fuel to the air stream. If your curious, look up the origional Holley 3 barrel rated at 950 CFM then compare it to the Holley 3 barrel 1050 CFM csrb. This carb has no down leg secondary boosters but just the nozzles, just a hugh oval shaped hole. Its strange looking....but worked extremely well...but not generally used for street applications.
BOB RENTON

 

[66Satellite47]

I stand corrected, the 3310-2 was a 4160 style without the screw in jet secondary metering block not a 4150. The CFM rating for the -2 remained at 780. I am confident the reduction to 750 was a result of the thicker throttle blades on the later 3310 versions. 3310-1 had thinner throttle blades than the "double pumper" 4776-4781 series.

 

[rumblefish360]

Do you happen to ya e a picture of each?
I have meta few fellas that have tried these 3 bbl. carbs on the street. No one had a favorable toe to state with on fella stating hatred and disgust in trying to use it saying he threw it against the wall. He offered it to me. At the time, I could not have filled the front page of a pamphlet about a carb.

Not necessarily....the air flow is usually dimensionally dependant of the combination of the butterfly valve's bore dimension AND the respective VENTURI dimensions. The down leg booster venturii amplified the differential pressure signal's point of high velocity making it the ideal place to introduce the fuel to the air stream. If your curious, look up the origional Holley 3 barrel rated at 950 CFM then compare it to the Holley 3 barrel 1050 CFM csrb. This carb has no down leg secondary boosters but just the nozzles, just a hugh oval shaped hole. Its strange looking....but worked extremely well...but not generally used for street applications.
BOB RENTON

 

[33 IMP]

If I remember right, the old three barrel Holleys used the same secondary diaphragm as the end sixpack two barrels, much bigger than the normal vac sec four bbl holley. Most guys couldn't get the secondary barrel to work right. Too soon, too much, or never.

 

[66Satellite47]

I tried a 950 3bbl on my low CR small cam 383 with DP4B & headers for a short time. Didn't work very well, but my tuning skills were not well developed. The 3310-1 worked great, so back on it went.

 

[33 IMP]

3310-1 (don't know if it was a -1 or just 3310 before the -2 came out) was a great carb, changeable jets on BOTH ends, and secondary diaphragm tunable.

 

[440 4 speed]

Quick fuel carbs are used by some drag racers here. They seem to like them. Don’t know where they are made?

 

[33 IMP]

I just bought a quick fuel adjustable metering block to put in an old Holley double pumper. The package says Bowling Green, Ky. Quick fuel is a subsidiary of Holley, with better prices and better quality control.

 

[rumblefish360]

Holley bought them some years back.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

This is the stock intake, if I get it to upload, that I am planning to use. I found a brand new , in the box , Eldlebrock carb, that I purchased for another project years ago that has never been installed. The script says its a 750 cfm, manual choke and #9907. How does that compare to a 1407? I have piddled mostly with Holleys and Quadrajets but never any Eldlebrocks. I don t see much gain in the purchase of a new performance intake if using cast exhaust manifolds ...is that a fair assumption? In watching Nick of Nicks Garage dyno his 440 for his Kowallsky car , he made 400 hp thru a 70 stock intake and cast manifolds. But of course i m not sure of his cam and head choice. Think he was running a 780 double pumper also...

I hate running carb adapters and so not wanted to try a TQ but will purchase a new Holley or Eldlebrock if needed....thanks for your opinions......View attachment 921413

Edelbrock #9907 is just their factory manufactured #1407, i.e. same carb. Add a #1478 electric choke kit and you are set like a jelly. Nothing wrong with Holleys, but on a stock rebuild like yours, the carb you have is perfect and so easy to tune - though out of the box should be pretty right.

 

[moparedtn]

Guys, Mopar nube here and just finishing up my first bb. Need a carb, my intake was cast in 1966 and is a square flange....so , my spread bore TQs won't work. I think an Edlebrock carb will bolt on with no spacer required.....but not sure if there is a better choice. Will a square bore Holley fit? I m thinking a 750cfm would be whats needed? thanks.....

I have that intake on my own 440 (fairly stock engine w/purpleshaft, headers, etc.) and I've played some with the Holley (yes, modern version of the 3310 750 vac sec) as well as the Edelbrock 1407 (see pic) that's on there now.
Truth is, either will work and work pretty well; the cfm need is met just fine with either, properly tuned.

If you're going with the Holley, a carb spacer will be mandatory under it so that the linkage on the passenger side of the carb will clear the choke well in the intake (or you could grind hell out of the intake, I suppose).
Figure at least a 1/2" spacer; 1" is better. Helps with fuel percolation, too.
Routing the fuel feed is fun on a big block with Holleys; the dual line typical hard line folks use is in the same neighborhood as the distributor, stock coil mount, all sorts of stuff happening right there.
(I've had quite a bit of luck in the past with the 3310 750vacsec right out of the box on stock 440's).

If you go with the Edelbrock, it works like stock on the intake - but you'll want a spacer anyways (percolation).
If you use Edelbrock's slick hard fuel line feed (see pic), it winds up in the same general area as the Holley, but doesn't intrude quite so far into other stuff so that you have room to route from there.
I run the Eddy on mine now out of sheer laziness - it works great, like it's meant to be there - and since it's an AVS just like the original Carter was, it ought to. Damn near identical.

For tuning, some guys are whizzes at the Holley, others, the Eddy.
Keep in mind that every time you go to change jets on a Holley, the bowl has to come off, messy.
Edelbrocks can be tuned from up top; no mess.
Either way, you'll get it to work. Just a matter of preference.
Good luck with it.

 

[rumblefish360]

You don’t need a spacer with the Edelbrock carb on the stock or aftermarket intake but what you should use is the thick OE style gasket which come in around the .333 mark for thickness to prevent heat soak just like the factory did because it works excellent.

Looking at the picture above, I don’t know if the Edelbrock fuel line will clear or not.

 

[bandit67]

Great info, thanks Guys. Thought I was close to firing her up but, one thing leads to another. After trying to clean up the engine bay , I now am about ready to drop the K member for clean up and rebushing. Sent the brake booster off for rebuild today, gezzz, what a job to remove, and looks like the steering box seals are leaking. So, test run will have to wait a bit.....

 

[ToddMcF2002]

I have that intake on my own 440 (fairly stock engine w/purpleshaft, headers, etc.) and I've played some with the Holley (yes, modern version of the 3310 750 vac sec) as well as the Edelbrock 1407 (see pic) that's on there now.
Truth is, either will work and work pretty well; the cfm need is met just fine with either, properly tuned.

If you're going with the Holley, a carb spacer will be mandatory under it so that the linkage on the passenger side of the carb will clear the choke well in the intake (or you could grind hell out of the intake, I suppose).
Figure at least a 1/2" spacer; 1" is better. Helps with fuel percolation, too.
Routing the fuel feed is fun on a big block with Holleys; the dual line typical hard line folks use is in the same neighborhood as the distributor, stock coil mount, all sorts of stuff happening right there.
(I've had quite a bit of luck in the past with the 3310 750vacsec right out of the box on stock 440's).

If you go with the Edelbrock, it works like stock on the intake - but you'll want a spacer anyways (percolation).
If you use Edelbrock's slick hard fuel line feed (see pic), it winds up in the same general area as the Holley, but doesn't intrude quite so far into other stuff so that you have room to route from there.
I run the Eddy on mine now out of sheer laziness - it works great, like it's meant to be there - and since it's an AVS just like the original Carter was, it ought to. Damn near identical.

For tuning, some guys are whizzes at the Holley, others, the Eddy.
Keep in mind that every time you go to change jets on a Holley, the bowl has to come off, messy.
Edelbrocks can be tuned from up top; no mess.
Either way, you'll get it to work. Just a matter of preference.
Good luck with it.
View attachment 933962

I realize this is an old thread..... but do you have a pic of your throttle linkage for the Edelbrock by chance? I was going to grab a 1411 because I really hate that I'm forced into a spacer with my QuickFuel 750 but I want ensure there will be no interference. The Holley throttle linkage interferes as well as the fast idle screw on the choke. Not to mention the standard Holley dual fuel lines pointing at the distributor. Its all fixable but I want to run a standard unsilenced air cleaner without modification so I'm thinking Edelbrock 1411 now. My Intake is identical to the OP's intake 2806178.

 

[moparedtn]

I realize this is an old thread..... but do you have a pic of your throttle linkage for the Edelbrock by chance? I was going to grab a 1411 because I really hate that I'm forced into a spacer with my QuickFuel 750 but I want ensure there will be no interference. The Holley throttle linkage interferes as well as the fast idle screw on the choke. Not to mention the standard Holley dual fuel lines pointing at the distributor. Its all fixable but I want to run a standard unsilenced air cleaner without modification so I'm thinking Edelbrock 1411 now. My Intake is identical to the OP's intake 2806178.

It's just the stock throttle cable bracket and connections at the carb for the Edelbrock.
The Holley requires the infamous "Mopar adapter" for the cable to connect to (if you're doing it right, anyways).
Not only that, but keep in mind if you use enough spacer, you'll need to do something similar with the throttle
cable bracket, too - otherwise, the cable comes at the carb at a weird angle.

 

[bello78]

I'd go Edelbrock AVS2 model 1906. The AVS is the newer version of the Carter AVS carb Mopar used. I had a Street Avenger and fought that SOB for months. I've been doing carbs for 40+ years and that Holley made me go throttle body EFI. It's almost too tuneable. I always liked the AVS series carbs back in the day, and the improvements Edelbrock has done made it even better.

Where do you connect the electric choke to?