440 Valvetrain Issues.....Questions

[threewood]

I pulled my valve covers to check the lash and discovered a few problems that need to be addressed.
1. The pushrod cups on #2 exhaust and #8 exhaust (far front and far rear, pass side) have been overheated. All the others in the engine look fine. The ball and cup on the overheated ones are not galled and look to be in good condition. Just looks like the ends are not getting enough oil on that bank. Can the inner oiling holes in the shaft be bushed to squeeze more oil out to the ends? Oiling holes are clear.

#2 exhaust left / #2 intake right

2. Valve locks on #8 exhaust look to be pulling through the valve retainer. The retainer sits a bit higher than the rest when I put a straight edge across the retainers and the locks are lower in the retainer. The #2 exhaust locks look galled on the valve stem (shiny white metal flowing out). Locks are Hughes 7* hardened and the retainers are 440 Source 7*. Signs of the rocker hitting the retainer as well.

Should I just get a new set of 10* locks and retainers? #8 exhaust on right...

3. My Crane ductile rocker arms are wearing in at the tips. I can catch a fingernail on the wear and a few that I checked will cast a shadow. MF! Valve stems look like new. I already sent Crane an email and will call tomorrow but do you suggest.....get a new set under warranty, if they warranty? Send these out to get bushed and reworked? Get a new set with roller tip, solid body?

The rocker on #2 exhaust shows some galling. No others show wear on the rocker shaft.

Big question is what do I need to do to get more oil to the #2 and #8 rocker arms? I seem to think it is related as that is where the issues are.

 

[khryslerkid]

What's the spring weight limit for the Crane ductal rockers?
What weight springs are you useing and cam specs? Just wondering if the rockers aren't up for the job.

 

[threewood]

What's the spring weight limit for the Crane ductal rockers?
What weight springs are you useing and cam specs? Just wondering if the rockers aren't up for the job.

I called Crane and specifically told them what i was running (415# open and .558" and .564" lift) and the guy told me not a problem....I wish I had recorded his name but I assumed he knew their products. The valve stems are mint...no wear so i am doubting the hardness of the rocker.

 

[khryslerkid]

Well the wear patteren looks good, its the fact they shouldn't be worn that bad.

 

[Lelo 500]

Sorry to hear your having problems. Looking forward to hearing what Crane has to say.

 

[threewood]

Sorry to hear your having problems. Looking forward to hearing what Crane has to say.

Thanks! I already ordered a set of Comp Cam Super Lock retainers and locks, 10* to replace the full set as one pulling through is enough. And I am looking hard at the Hughes cnc'd aluminum rocker arms, roller tip only in 1.5:1

 

[khryslerkid]

Here's a couple running big numbers without any issues.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1183337/crane-iron-rockers-question.html

 

[threewood]

Here's a couple running big numbers without any issues.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1183337/crane-iron-rockers-question.html

I'm sure i saw that thread when I was looking last year....but a lot can happen in 5 years concerning products.

 

[cryplydog]

Solids or hyd., i'd say you are spring stacking either way. I would pull the heads and start over cause so far you've been pretty lucky.

 

[threewood]

Solids or hyd., i'd say you are spring stacking either way. I would pull the heads and start over cause so far you've been pretty lucky.

Solid lifter cam. Installed height is 1.875" and max lift is .750" / max coil bind is .785" and I double checked all installed heights when setting the heads up. My cam has max lift of .564" and I just went out and looked at a few valves on the driver side at max lift and plenty of room between coils. Motor has over 3000 miles on it approximately and plenty of hard driving.

 

[cryplydog]

threewood, did you check the spring pressure at seat, lift, and installed height?

 

[threewood]

threewood, did you check the spring pressure at seat, lift, and installed height?

That's the one thing I did not check as I didn't have a spring pressure tester. The springs were ordered as a package from Hughes with their cam and lifters. It is the spring they recommend and sell. I set up the heights to their specs.

 

[threewood]

I went ahead and ordered the Hughes CNC'd 1.5 rocker arms. They are listed as having a positive oil flow to the pushrod cups so hopefully that will cure the lack of oil at the ends of the rocker shaft. The Crane arms could be modified for the same flow by cutting a channel from the middle oiling run to the pushrod oiling hole. And it about eliminates the chance of severe wear at the tip.

 

[cryplydog]

I have the same rocker set and they seem to work great with comp xs274s and they hold lash settings well with my combo.

 

[lewtot184]

you can't set lash with that type of wear on the rocker tips. unless someone can re-finish the tips i'd say the rockers are shot. there may be some debris in the shafts preventing flow or possibly some restriction (debris/clogged passage) in the head restricting oil.

 

[dvw]

I would take a serious look at the valve itself where those locks are mushroomed. Something there is very wrong. A hardened lock shouldnt be soft enough to do that. It may have damaged the stem. If the stem is damaged you may have caught it before disaster. The iron rockers should have easily been up to the task if oiled properly. I've run them with solid roller cams. Are the oil holes clear in the shaft/rocker that is damaged? Personally I'd pull the heads and do a inspection on it all.
Doug

 

[69 GTX]

The roller rockers will cure a lot of your problems. But the oil supply is critical. They may also of made a mistake on the springs, giving you some with way higher poundage. At least you found it before it dropped a valve!

 

[threewood]

I would take a serious look at the valve itself where those locks are mushroomed. Something there is very wrong. A hardened lock shouldnt be soft enough to do that. It may have damaged the stem. If the stem is damaged you may have caught it before disaster. The iron rockers should have easily been up to the task if oiled properly. I've run them with solid roller cams. Are the oil holes clear in the shaft/rocker that is damaged? Personally I'd pull the heads and do a inspection on it all.
Doug

The oil holes appear clear in the shaft. I can't get inside to see if there is debris there without pulling the endcaps. I haven't started pulling retainers yet but will inspect the valves closely when I do.

The roller rockers will cure a lot of your problems. But the oil supply is critical. They may also of made a mistake on the springs, giving you some with way higher poundage. At least you found it before it dropped a valve!

I'll take a few of the springs down to the local shop and see if they can check spring pressures before putting it back together.

 

[threewood]

you can't set lash with that type of wear on the rocker tips. unless someone can re-finish the tips i'd say the rockers are shot. there may be some debris in the shafts preventing flow or possibly some restriction (debris/clogged passage) in the head restricting oil.

I just heard back from Rocker Arms Unlimited. They can rebuild the rockers for $22/ea plus $76 per shaft to hard chrome...So $504 plus shipping to have them rebuilt but I am still waiting on Crane to see what they say.

 

[69 GTX]

I was thinking I paid 700$ for my Harland Sharp 1.6s But they are needle bearing rockers. Looking back I hope I don't regret that, I have heard bad stories of needle bearings coming apart. I'll probably pull the every couple years/ 10,000 miles for a checkup.