64/65 ball & trunion

[MoparMikey]

Just a question out of curiosity. 64/65 only years for the ball and trunion set up, which was also new with the new A833 four speed tranny. Was the B&T discontinued for any particuliar reason(s) known? Stronger/weaker then U joint? I would suspect it's some what more complexity made it more expensive to manufactuer.

 

[Slantsixdan]

No. 1965 was the last year for Ball & Trunnion front U-joints. The first year was sometime in the 1940s.

 

[MoparMikey]

Yea, mixed up 64 first year for A833 which used B&T until 1965.

 

[Moparsmitty]

There's nothing wrong with the design of a ball & trunnion joint. It is more complex to manufacture and service than a regular u-joint. You could argue that either design is better than the other. I'm running a B & T joint on my 64 Belvedere and it is trouble free even though it is almost 50 yrs old. I took it apart a couple of years ago to clean and grease it and it looked new. Put it back together with a new boot and haven't thought about it since.
Remind me of the old betamax video tapes. They were actually a better design than VHS but the world went VHS anyway.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I don't know. That little cross shaft is what? 3/8"? Kinda small to carry ALL the load. I for one am glad they upgraded.

 

[62MAX]

I don't know. That little cross shaft is what? 3/8"? Kinda small to carry ALL the load. I for one am glad they upgraded.

Actually,the cross shaft is 5/8" on a B-body and 11/16" on a C-body.

 

[Slantsixdan]

I don't know. That little cross shaft is what? 3/8"? Kinda small to carry ALL the load.

And yet…that's exactly what they did, reliably and without any pattern of failure. Think about it: the '62-'65 Max Wedge and Hemi cars all had Ball & Trunnion front U-joints and they didn't spit out driveshafts.

I for one am glad they upgraded

They didn't "upgrade", they changed. The cross-and-roller type U-joint they changed to is not stronger or better than the Ball & Trunnion, it's just less expensive and easier to build up on the driveshaft assembly line. That's why they changed.

 

[Darter6]

At a show,Talking to Gene Snow this subject came up,,His answer, " We put 800 horsepower in front of those with out a problem.....And lots of guys did neutral drop starts before high stall converters........What do you think ?" Quote !

 

[Sonny Black]

I'm running (on my '63 b-body) THE original B/W T10,
(no 833's in 1963)

with the ball and trunnion....426 1 4bbl, 355 rear.
no problems here..
here is a peek.....:3gears:



sonny

 

[RustyRatRod]

Actually,the cross shaft is 5/8" on a B-body and 11/16" on a C-body.

Well that explains a lot. I am an A body guy and I don't the cross shaft is near that big. I could be mistaken, but I'm almost certain it's not. Thanks for the info.

 

[RustyRatRod]

And yet…that's exactly what they did, reliably and without any pattern of failure. Think about it: the '62-'65 Max Wedge and Hemi cars all had Ball & Trunnion front U-joints and they didn't spit out driveshafts.



They didn't "upgrade", they changed. The cross-and-roller type U-joint they changed to is not stronger or better than the Ball & Trunnion, it's just less expensive and easier to build up on the driveshaft assembly line. That's why they changed.

That's true, Dan. I shudder thinkin about all the clutch drops at 5K plus RPM. lol That makes sense about the change too. Sorta the same deal going from the early Hemi to the B series engine. Cheaper to build. Certainly they lost cool points, though.

 

[62MAX]

Well that explains a lot. I am an A body guy and I don't the cross shaft is near that big. I could be mistaken, but I'm almost certain it's not. Thanks for the info.

It is and I can give you a picture with measurements if you still doubt it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It is and I can give you a picture with measurements if you still doubt it.

I don't. I had a 65 Valiant that I swapped a hot 360 in years ago that had the ball and trunion stuff. It's been a long time. About 15 years since I sold it.

 

[64BEL]

Sonny likes his B/T.:icon_winkle:

Good points, Sonny and Dan. Reminds me of when people think the 741 third member isn't strong enough, either. Yes, the later ones are beefier, but the 741 held up just fine behind the Max Wedges.

 

[johnhinds]

There's nothing wrong with the design of a ball & trunnion joint. It is more complex to manufacture and service than a regular u-joint. You could argue that either design is better than the other. I'm running a B & T joint on my 64 Belvedere and it is trouble free even though it is almost 50 yrs old. I took it apart a couple of years ago to clean and grease it and it looked new. Put it back together with a new boot and haven't thought about it since.
Remind me of the old betamax video tapes. They were actually a better design than VHS but the world went VHS anyway.

How do you take it apart to clean it and put grease in it? I would like to do this before i install mine.

 

[Slantsixdan]

The factory service manual has all the details…you do have the factory service manual for your car, right? That's tool "number zero" to buy!

 

[Moparsmitty]

How do you take it apart to clean it and put grease in it? I would like to do this before i install mine.

The ball & trunnion joint isn't very complicated. The 1962 to 1965 mopar website has a picture of the assembly. Be careful that you don't lose any of the little needle bearings while it's apart. The flexible boot probably should be replaced also. The OEM boots are scarce and almost 50 years old. I used a flexible boot for a steering rack and it fit ok after I shortened it. I believe that the early Mopar website I mentioned has a part # for the boot. Getting the boot to slide on around and between the parts of the joint is the hardest part. Grease it up a little and work carefully so as not to tear the boot. Like Dan says, a factory service manual will help a lot.

 

[Slantsixdan]

New(!) correct boots are available from Andy Bernbaum, who officially supports only Mopars through '62, so if yours is a '63-'65 model just pretend it's a '62 when viewing the catalogue.

 

[1948 santa]

If you do press out the pin to take it apart then reassemble use the diameter of a dime to center it.