MAGNUM GT XS22L9R
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
67 gtx
- Thread starter mkp67gtx
- Start date
69Coronetrt
Well-Known Member
Sorry... I don't believe we've met.
I think you'll find I'm more partial to day two cars.
What I'm not partial to is people spending hard earned money with vendors that offer bad products or people trying to buy fake documentation for their cars in the form of tags, broadcast sheets or window stickers that can be used, actively or passively, in the sale of the vehicle. These are three documents that help define the history of a car. Two of them were never meant to be kept with the car. The tag was. Jacking with a tag is jacking with how the car was actually built.
BCBOUND
Well-Known Member
So then we should take for granted if a car has a correctly stamped engine block, it is original? Or should we also put RESTAMPED on the pad just to be sure some one down the line is not fooled? Does that not affect value?
If you are concerned with protecting every buyer down the line, did you heat stamp REPRODUCTION in your new legendary seat covers? Did you scratch REPAINTED in your new paint job? Again, value enhanced assumptions for some buyer down the line. Hey, isn't that original chrome on your bumpers?? Oh, I see RECHROMED scratched into the bumpers now. After all we have to protect those "down the line" buyers, right?
Maybe you are not so altrustic as you think.....
Theoretically, if some idiotic, drunken buyer at an auction or car show that has been an *** all day, is overjoyed because he thinks your car has original engine, interior, chrome and paint and is willing to pay twice what the car is worth in cash today, how many of you "purists" are going to think to yourself "buyer beware, my kids need a college education" and take his money?? Who will pull him aside and tell him not to spend so much on your car? You know the answer and you are only fooling yourself, not me if you say you would.
If you are concerned with protecting every buyer down the line, did you heat stamp REPRODUCTION in your new legendary seat covers? Did you scratch REPAINTED in your new paint job? Again, value enhanced assumptions for some buyer down the line. Hey, isn't that original chrome on your bumpers?? Oh, I see RECHROMED scratched into the bumpers now. After all we have to protect those "down the line" buyers, right?
Maybe you are not so altrustic as you think.....
Theoretically, if some idiotic, drunken buyer at an auction or car show that has been an *** all day, is overjoyed because he thinks your car has original engine, interior, chrome and paint and is willing to pay twice what the car is worth in cash today, how many of you "purists" are going to think to yourself "buyer beware, my kids need a college education" and take his money?? Who will pull him aside and tell him not to spend so much on your car? You know the answer and you are only fooling yourself, not me if you say you would.
MAGNUM GT XS22L9R
Well-Known Member
You're the type that will never get it! :jerk:
MAGNUM GT XS22L9R
Well-Known Member
Nope, but thanks for proving my point! 
BCBOUND
Well-Known Member
MAGNUM GT says:
"Yes it is! At least if the original tag is on the car, you know what your really getting!!!"
...You are "really" getting what is parked in front of you, not necessarily what it says on the tag...
"Until it is time that the car is going to be sold! Maybe by a relative or a friend that now can not tell what the car really is?"
.....who in their right mind is going to take the word of a "relative or a friend that now can not tell what the car really is?". Aren't you as a buyer going to check the car out, or maybe pay someone to do it for you?
"Quote:"fender tags dont fool buyers - dishonest sellers do" until it's sold a few times!? The fender tag and vin # keep the car honest and if you really are just building the clone for yourself changing the fender tag shouldn't be an issue to the owner! The only reason to repop a fender tag to your build is to fool others!!!"
Honesty is not guaranteed by a vin number or a fender tag. If they both came off of a burned up car, and put on a similar car, they do not keep anything honest, do they? Buying a reproduction tag doesn't brand someone a thief. The SELLER keeps things honest. And there is no way to eliminate a dishonest seller. Just go into a used car lot.....
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"Nope, but thanks for proving my point!"
Epic comeback.
.......whats next...nah nah - na nah nah?
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Actually, its fun to "stir the pot" here ...and I hope I have everyone thinking about just how far we all can go to what can be defined as unintentionally fooling a "down the line" buyer. I'm as guilty as the next guy.
Sure, its hard to admit, but if we point the finger at the fender tag makers and buyers, and brand them all as dishonest cheaters, can we not somehow be accused of a similar crime, if on a smaller or obviously less intentional way, by reinstalling, reupholstering, repainting or rechroming? After all, something is only "original" once, but I see unmeaningly dishonest ads all the time for original cars that are redone. Is that acceptable just because the fender tag was not replaced?
"Yes it is! At least if the original tag is on the car, you know what your really getting!!!"
...You are "really" getting what is parked in front of you, not necessarily what it says on the tag...
"Until it is time that the car is going to be sold! Maybe by a relative or a friend that now can not tell what the car really is?"
.....who in their right mind is going to take the word of a "relative or a friend that now can not tell what the car really is?". Aren't you as a buyer going to check the car out, or maybe pay someone to do it for you?
"Quote:"fender tags dont fool buyers - dishonest sellers do" until it's sold a few times!? The fender tag and vin # keep the car honest and if you really are just building the clone for yourself changing the fender tag shouldn't be an issue to the owner! The only reason to repop a fender tag to your build is to fool others!!!"
Honesty is not guaranteed by a vin number or a fender tag. If they both came off of a burned up car, and put on a similar car, they do not keep anything honest, do they? Buying a reproduction tag doesn't brand someone a thief. The SELLER keeps things honest. And there is no way to eliminate a dishonest seller. Just go into a used car lot.....
- - - Updated - - -
"Nope, but thanks for proving my point!"
Epic comeback.
.......whats next...nah nah - na nah nah?
- - - Updated - - -
Actually, its fun to "stir the pot" here ...and I hope I have everyone thinking about just how far we all can go to what can be defined as unintentionally fooling a "down the line" buyer. I'm as guilty as the next guy.
Sure, its hard to admit, but if we point the finger at the fender tag makers and buyers, and brand them all as dishonest cheaters, can we not somehow be accused of a similar crime, if on a smaller or obviously less intentional way, by reinstalling, reupholstering, repainting or rechroming? After all, something is only "original" once, but I see unmeaningly dishonest ads all the time for original cars that are redone. Is that acceptable just because the fender tag was not replaced?
ws27
Well-Known Member
BC, you are mixing up restoring with creating a vehicle that didn't exist. Putting a rechromed bumper on a car doesn't constitute any type of fraud. Nor does any type of repainting, replacing, replating or even cloning. Now changing numbers to make something, something it is not is fraudulent. Now you are messing with either legal identification or legally accepted identification. You are also messing with history, which is a significant part of our cars value. So that is why we are harping on you. Ultimately, when you change numbers, you have just created a car that didn't exist.
BTW, sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread.
For example, if I took a Satellite and cloned it into a GTX but kept the vin and fender tag correct, any future sellers would be able to identify that the car was really a Satellite with GTX badging. But if I changed the VIN (illegal) and fender tag (not officially illegal) future sellers could be duped in thinking it was real. Someone along the way is going to lose some money. And in this hobby I feel the majority of us car guys would never do something like that. That's just how we roll.
As a matter of fact, I bet most of us would take a loss by selling my example as a Satellite instead of a GTX had we bought it as a GTX.
I'm trying...
BTW, sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread.
For example, if I took a Satellite and cloned it into a GTX but kept the vin and fender tag correct, any future sellers would be able to identify that the car was really a Satellite with GTX badging. But if I changed the VIN (illegal) and fender tag (not officially illegal) future sellers could be duped in thinking it was real. Someone along the way is going to lose some money. And in this hobby I feel the majority of us car guys would never do something like that. That's just how we roll.
As a matter of fact, I bet most of us would take a loss by selling my example as a Satellite instead of a GTX had we bought it as a GTX.
I'm trying...
MAGNUM GT XS22L9R
Well-Known Member
Don't bother, he does not get it. I stick to my comment "Thanks for proving my point!" yet again.
______
As for Epic Comebacks, what was yours?? Quote: "is that short for "you got me but I'll never admit it?"", REALLY?! lol
ink banana:
67GTX440
Well-Known Member
He did mention he bought a car with what he thought was an original tag only to find out it was not. He may still just be pissed that his
69coronetrt from the fender tag turned out to be a 69 Valiant. That would be a pisser. I was not fooled by the 67 Belvedere 4 door fender tag on my 67 GTX when I bought it. It was pretty obvious to me it was the wrong tag from the missing two doors. Of course, with bondo, you can make two doors disappear. Crap! They should outlaw bondo!
67GTX440
Well-Known Member
Looks like same issue with this tag. Some numbers other than 1 line up to perfectly with alphabeticals as compared to factory tags.
YY1
Well-Known Member
Against my better judjment, I have to chime in, for the sake of argument.
The problem with "anything on a fender tag you want" and the difference between repro seat covers and repro tags is this-
Since the examples so far have been 67 GTX's, I'll use one for my example as well.
Let's say I find a really rough basket case 67 GTX shell that is pretty much a "stripper" car, 440, auto, manual and/or base everything else.
Now, putting on my "less than scrupulous capitalist" hat, I decide to "up the value on the car.
I'll simply have a fender tag made that says the car came with evey available option except a/c.
Let's put ps. pdb, pw, dana, fm radio, tach, rear defroster and everything else we can think of, maybe even a tri-color interior.
A rough stripper GTX shell in today's market (and I've seen a complete, car needing quarters NOT sell for 4K OBO for over 2 years) might sell for 1-2K, but a LOADED GTX shell might be the incentive for someone to buy it and sink lots of money into it, thinking thier car would be worth way more when restored because of all the options you don't usually see together on these cars.
Those who said "tags don't screw people, people screw people" are right but the tag is the tool that allows me to do it.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I could simply post pics of the shell, and boxes of parts, and the tag, and judging from the responses here, I'd have lots of interest with out any supporting info or even text in the ad.
69coronet RT wants to keep repro tags "easily" identifiable as such, and does share his "secret" with those who have tags in question.
If I had a car with a missing tag, would I buy a repro.....probably.
Would I code the tag for how I wished the car was built- no.
I might even settle for a tag with just the info I know about and nothing else.
The problem with "anything on a fender tag you want" and the difference between repro seat covers and repro tags is this-
Since the examples so far have been 67 GTX's, I'll use one for my example as well.
Let's say I find a really rough basket case 67 GTX shell that is pretty much a "stripper" car, 440, auto, manual and/or base everything else.
Now, putting on my "less than scrupulous capitalist" hat, I decide to "up the value on the car.
I'll simply have a fender tag made that says the car came with evey available option except a/c.
Let's put ps. pdb, pw, dana, fm radio, tach, rear defroster and everything else we can think of, maybe even a tri-color interior.
A rough stripper GTX shell in today's market (and I've seen a complete, car needing quarters NOT sell for 4K OBO for over 2 years) might sell for 1-2K, but a LOADED GTX shell might be the incentive for someone to buy it and sink lots of money into it, thinking thier car would be worth way more when restored because of all the options you don't usually see together on these cars.
Those who said "tags don't screw people, people screw people" are right but the tag is the tool that allows me to do it.
In fact, I'm pretty sure I could simply post pics of the shell, and boxes of parts, and the tag, and judging from the responses here, I'd have lots of interest with out any supporting info or even text in the ad.
69coronet RT wants to keep repro tags "easily" identifiable as such, and does share his "secret" with those who have tags in question.
If I had a car with a missing tag, would I buy a repro.....probably.
Would I code the tag for how I wished the car was built- no.
I might even settle for a tag with just the info I know about and nothing else.
69Coronetrt
Well-Known Member
There are no 'secrets'. They are a massed produced item with easily identifiable similarities and differences. Anyone that wants to can learn this. I find them interesting.
Just like anything else in life, it takes effort. If you don't want to put forth the effort to do it on your own and have to rely on others, you accept the results...good and bad.
MAGNUM GT XS22L9R
Well-Known Member
Too bad the manufacture don't stamp "Duplicate" on them somewhere like they do when getting a replacement drivers license.
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