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A Redneck and His "Poor Man's Timing Tape"

Wow, talk about coincidence!
Look at what Uncle Tony posted about last evening:


Yeah yeah, he uses one of them fancy measuring thingies - but he's doing the EXACT SAME THING
I was doing yesterday.
That's kinda spooky if you think about it.... :eek:
 
5*-10* used to work when these engines were running on leaded gas. Using 10% ethanol is the main reason you need more timing. The aftermarket cams have a bit more ramp built into them than a factory cam and that will require more timing. Not enough timing running on 10% ethanol can cause over heating.
It sounds a little crazy but throwing timing at it until it starts to ping (spark knock, pre detonation) then backing it off a bit is pretty much the rule of thumb now days. You'll find that doing this will just about put the timing at the numbers we've been talking.
And that's my "Wall of Text" for today Mr. Pusser :D
It's certainly something to spend a lot of time on experimenting, if one is so inclined...and I reckon we are or we
wouldn't enjoy the dang hobby so much, eh?

Ok, in reverse comparison here :)D), I don't run any fuel with ethanol in it unless I just have no choice. Even my
newer rides just do a lot better on the no-alky diet and return better fuel economy on the straight stuff, so that's
a no-brainer, especially since it's available locally.
It ticks all the boxes for me - better for the cars and the mileage, better for the power and I get a tiny bit of satisfaction
thumbing my nose at another fed mandate. :)
Yes, the GTX runs noticeably hotter when I'm stuck buying ethfuel. Yuck.

I'm also running the old school Mopar purpleshaft cam, a little more conventional in comparison to modern, no doubt
better cams available now - but it came in the engine and I've always loved the sound, so it stays. :)

Your reference to supposed modern rules of thumb of "crank it up until it knocks" ain't so new at all - heck, that's
always how the shadetrees did it. I can remember my dad playing with 1930's cars and not even using a timing light.
Give it all the timing it would take until it rattled, then back off a couple....
That's always how I knew when to say when with the older 440's I played with, too. I'd start at 10BTDC, DC electronic distributor installed, then sneak up the timing until she rattled, then back off.
Worked like a charm - until this particular engine.
I've had the initial timing way up there, pushing 18-20BTDC and I haven't heard this one rattle yet.
Must not have any compression at all.... :)

Yep, I'm happy at the moment with this engine responding to the same old bag of tricks for me, at least until all
these storms get out of here long enough for me to drive it some and test.
I AM concerned that I thought I saw a tiny bit of oil around the top edge of the MSD coil, though - looked almost
like the crimp seal along the edge was leaking a tiny bit?
That can't be good!
Finally:
Thanks for catching my "Buford" reference, my friend. :thumbsup:
Self-effacing humor is something I enjoy doing, for whatever reason.
 
It sounds a little like your cam combo means you need more initial timing and then you end up with too much total. The old trick of welding up some of the advance slots to limit total timing might help, then you can boost the static timing and see if the vacuum advance will be less of a problem when the higher rpm timing is brought back under control.
It's certainly aiming in that direction, yes sir. Pretty common on these, I reckon.
I'll give it a couple local trips with things set like this and see what happens...
 
Why do you need a new carb?? Tune the one you have and make it crispy!
Because the one that's on there was inherited with the engine when I bought it.
I did a thread on what I found when I yanked it off there and tore it down.
It's stamped "REMAN" and I knew something was way wrong, so I got in it and checked.
Every....dang....needle and jet in it were WAY off, like the reman company was hiring chimps
to rework the things!
Not to mention, throttles are a rattlin' in their bores, shafts are leaky - it's just a worn out
old carb, really. I got a tuning kit and installed the needles and jets in it that the carb came with
new (according to Edelbrock) and that helped things tremendously, but it's still a worn out body.

As is though, she's plenty snappy and I get a chuckle out of randomly tapping throttle with the
wife on board, making the car jump and chirp.
She fails to see the humor in that, for some reason. :)
 
Why not use a dial back timing light? I picked up my Innova digital dial back timing light for about $100 and it's one of the best tools I've ever used.

And like 'Kid says, you cant use 60's specs on these motors anymore since they now run on crappy unleaded gas. The only thing you can do is tune by ear/testing. In my experience these motors have to run a minimum of 15* initial. I'm running 22*. I think...
I'd like to have a fancy timing light one day, although it might wind up an old dog not understanding new tricks?
Oh, again coincidentally, Tony in his video tells why he doesn't use a dial light. Typical Tony.... :)

Yep, I agree - the "whisperer" in me still tunes as much by feel and ear as by anything. I just get a kick out of seeing what I know to be true actually prove out by measurable means.
 
In case anyone's wondering, I got a chance to drive the car some today, in between storm squalls.
Sure enough, it likes the 10BTDC initial setting much better, driving quite smoothly and calmly for
a change.
No doubt, the DC electronic distributors' curve is also being enjoyed by the car, too.

Worries left over?
1. The car is back to falling on her nose in 3rd if I'm on it full bore and rowing the gears on the highway.
The Edelbrock literally runs out of fuel at that point; I'm pretty sure the thing is totally emptying the bowls
and the 4.5psi I'm observing at idle for fuel pressure means the "hemi" fuel pumps' pushrod has been
shortened yet again.
Damn frustrating, trying to get that pump to live on the engine...I wonder if the spring in it is excessively
stiff, thus putting the pushrod under undue stress.
Might switch back to the regular ol' big block stock pump just to try it out.

2. The discovery of a slight trace of oil around the top edge of the MSD Blaster II coil is disconcerting.
It appears the seal between the shell of the coil and the top/end plate on it is failing somewhat?
If I didn't know better, it's almost as if too much current is hitting the thing, even though it
says it needs no external ballast and I have one (albeit, a very low rated one).
Might have to go fetch me one of those big ol' yellow Accel coils like old times...
 
Have you thought about a better pump, better delivery with no empty bowls?
I don't reckon I need a "better" pump:
https://www.manciniracing.com/cabheen5psis.html
120gph at 6.5psi ought to be enough to feed a silly ol' street 440, eh?
Problem is, for some reason, pump pushrods get short trying to run the thing.
I know some of the pushrods out there now are junk (including the Howard's!) but I also
suspect the spring tension on the pump is putting undue pressure on the pushrod, too.

See, here's the thing on the bowls going dry....
even if they are going dry, the pump should be able to keep up with the demand of the moment
when the engine is full bore into 3rd gear, I'd hope?
 
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