a833 trans / clutch problem

[r/t rick]

Hello everyone I have a 69 superbee 383 4 speed that I have been working on and off for 13 years. the car sat since 79 until I found it in 98. anyway the car does run and drive very well except that the trans grinds slightly going into every gear when shifting (driving) if sitting still and engine running I can shift freely into any gear no problem or grinding. I checked trans fluid level perfectly clean and full. clutch grabs about half way and does have some chatter. I would say about 3 times over the course of thirteen years the clutch has frozen on me from sitting and I would have to start in gear and slam the brakes to free it up. My question is... is this clutch shot and not fully disengaging causing the trans to grind slightly or is there something I should be looking at inside the trans like synchronizers? sorry so long but wanted to give a clear picture of what is going on. Thanks rick

 

[MEJ1990TM]

Hello everyone I have a 69 superbee 383 4 speed that I have been working on and off for 13 years. the car sat since 79 until I found it in 98. anyway the car does run and drive very well except that the trans grinds slightly going into every gear when shifting (driving) if sitting still and engine running I can shift freely into any gear no problem or grinding. I checked trans fluid level perfectly clean and full. clutch grabs about half way and does have some chatter. I would say about 3 times over the course of thirteen years the clutch has frozen on me from sitting and I would have to start in gear and slam the brakes to free it up. My question is... is this clutch shot and not fully disengaging causing the trans to grind slightly or is there something I should be looking at inside the trans like synchronizers? sorry so long but wanted to give a clear picture of what is going on. Thanks rick

It sounds like the synchro rings aren't doing their jobs anymore. If it was the clutch not fully releasing ,when stopped, it would either chatter while trying to go into gear, or shift into gear very hard.

 

[r/t rick]

Thanks for your reply, can I inspect synchros without removing the trans? and what should I be looking for? thanks rick:spider:

 

[tpodwdog]

definitely syncros. easiest to pull the tranny coz youre gonna need to rebuild if ya plan on keeping and driving it. put a new clutch and throw out bearing and pilot bearing in it while its out to be safe. just a thot!

 

[Meep-Meep]

If the clutch hangs up then certainly that could cause your issue, and if you have worn synchros even more so. Either way I'll agree the tranny has to come out.

You can inspect synchros by removing the side cover and seeing how far you can push the ring against the gear. As the synchro wears the gap between it and the gear will get smaller. It's not easy to get a conclusive answer this way but can usually get an idea if it's totally worn or new. You really should break it down.

 

[r/t rick]

I pulled everything out and the clutch pressure plate was not the problem but will replace all that anyway. The problem lies inside the trans like all of you had suspected. The brass looking fork on the right side is very sloppy and worn excessively especially on the top finger. also syncros look to have sharp edges and worn. gears look fine and there is light brass looking fine metal shavings inside the case. can I get away with just new syncros and that one fork since everything else is good?

 

[tpodwdog]

possibly...but i would have it rebuilt by a pro. might cost ya 500 or 600...but it will be worth having piece of mind! he will disassemble it and thoroughly clean it, replace the blocker rings ( syncros) .. give it a good bill of health and thats one less thing to worry about!

 

[r/t rick]

here are a few pics

 

[Meep-Meep]

Metal shavings are not uncommon in a 4 spd. with the drain plug magnet looking like a porcupine. When looking at gears the feature to note is the little points that line up with the brass synchro ring. If a tranny was heavily abused by grinding gears the lead in on those points will be rounded off or mushroomed over. Also the slider needs to be inspected for similar wear patterns. This will directly affect your shifting quality and all the new synchros in the world won't help it. I'm sure a few of us can talk you through it as it's not that complicated, otherwise take it to someone who knows manual trannys.

 

[r/t rick]

Metal shavings are not uncommon in a 4 spd. with the drain plug magnet looking like a porcupine. When looking at gears the feature to note is the little points that line up with the brass synchro ring. If a tranny was heavily abused by grinding gears the lead in on those points will be rounded off or mushroomed over. Also the slider needs to be inspected for similar wear patterns. This will directly affect your shifting quality and all the new synchros in the world won't help it. I'm sure a few of us can talk you through it as it's not that complicated, otherwise take it to someone who knows manual trannys.

thanks, i did not pull anything apart inside only removed side cover, when i figure out how to reduce the image size on my camera i will try to take a picture of what i am seeing and upload for you to see. maybe what i am looking at is normal. but that 1-2 brass shift fork seems worn and really sloppy, more so on the top fnger. like i said in the first post it would only grind slightly when shifting almost felt like a clutch problem more than a trans problem but everything looked fine mechanically except for a slight build up of material on the flywheel and pressure plate from the clutch disc sticking to them over the years. keep in mind this clutch has been in there since before 1979. anymore advice and help would be appreciated. thanks rick

 

[Meep-Meep]

I have seen that 1-2 shift fork wear more than the 3-4 and in case you're wondering those can be replaced with steel.

Now here's something else I just remembered. It's not uncommon to find a broken synchro ring in the earlier trannys like the 68 and maybe the 69 and pretty sure in 70 they went to the latest design as a fix for that problem.

 

[Ron 73]

For resizing pictures, hope it helps good luck with the 833.

http://www.freeimageconverter.com/overview.aspx

 

[r/t rick]

i have been really sick the last couple days stuck in bed, as soon as i get up and around i will get those pics. thanks everyone, rick