Another clueless question from Skytrooper

[Skytrooper]

Ok, the rules are;
1. You must explain the process in the most simple terms (being that Electrics are my Achilles heel).
2. Pictures would really be helpful.
3. always consider rule 1 for any answer.

Now, let’s move on to the current dilemma ( see what I did there ? Haha, current..).
My ‘71 charger has hideaway head lights. They do not work. I can manually crank them up or down in an emergency, but it is not an ideal situation. I do not know all the parts and pieces required for this system to function.
Would someone be willing to make a very simple line diagram with pictures of the major players (remember rule 1)? At least armed with that I could make sure I have the necessary components for the system. After that we could move on to testing (if all components are there and it still doesn’t function).

I would really appreciate the help.

Thank you,
Skytrooper

 

[MWbirdLOVER70]

Ok, the rules are;
1. You must explain the process in the most simple terms (being that Electrics are my Achilles heel).
2. Pictures would really be helpful.
3. always consider rule 1 for any answer.

Now, let’s move on to the current dilemma ( see what I did there ? Haha, current..).
My ‘71 charger has hideaway head lights. They do not work. I can manually crank them up or down in an emergency, but it is not an ideal situation. I do not know all the parts and pieces required for this system to function.
Would someone be willing to make a very simple line diagram with pictures of the major players (remember rule 1)? At least armed with that I could make sure I have the necessary components for the system. After that we could move on to testing (if all components are there and it still doesn’t function).

I would really appreciate the help.

Thank you,
Skytrooper

‘71 Charger Hideaway Headlight Motor Rebuild

 

[T2R9]

I would start by testing the motor. Disconnect the plug and use a jumper from the + battery post and apply one side of the plug then the other. One side is open the other closes.

 

[Bee1971]

And then of course

The concealed headlamp relay under the dash

I saved this from moons ago

Under dash next to ashtray


There are 2 relays there one is the headlight delay relay the other is the headlight relay which is the larger of the two. Place your hand on the relay and turn on your headlights. If you feel the relay engage that's half of the wiring that's good. Take the relay out from behind the dash there is 1 screw located on the bottom of the dash securing it. Turn off your headlights and disconnect the T shaped plug and jump a piece of wire to short the circuit, at the headlight cover motor you will see a 2 connector plug, Unplug it and put a meter on it and check for continuity, If the circuit is closed that's the second half of the wiring that's good. After taking the relay and breaker out and opening both cases I found the breaker was only a thin piece of metal with a contact point. Apparently what happens when it trips the metal heats up opening the circuit so after the metal cools down it makes contact again. The metal was bent and the contact point was not flat. It looked to me as if the motor for the hide away covers must have burnt out and really did a number on the breaker. I cleaned the contact points with a fine file and bent the metal to make a complete circuit again.( Be sure that both contact points are perfectly flat to each other to prevent arching ) That was problem number 1. Problem number 2 was that the contact point to open the covers on the relay on the coil was also over heated and needed to bent back into place to make contact when the relay trips. Again file the contact points flat to each other and bend the top contact point down to where it barely touches the coil contact. I adjusted it with a feeler gauge to .020. the opening wire is blue with a yellow tracer and the close is black with a red tracer. All in all it took 15 minutes and I now have working hide away headlights that work off of the headlight switch as it should. I'm posting this for anyone with hide away headlights issues try this fix first before spending a lot of money. Good luck I hope this helps and saves you a lot of Time, Money and Headaches.

 

[T2R9]

If the motor tests good then onto the relay. If it is bad based on the tests posted above I found it cheaper and easier to replace it with a modern Bosch 30A relay based on the following diagram some wonderful Internet stranger made. I also replaced my circuit breaker with an inline 20A fuse.

 

[Nxcoupe]

My experience with the motors is they use a small braided steel cable as the ground which is pinched between the stamped steel bottom if the motor and the body of the motor. This cable corodes between there causing the motor to not work. I've taken the two bolts loose and cleaned this wire and the points where it contacts the case and cover and had the motor start working again. I found this out accidentally when I loosened the bolts while everything was still connected and that braided cable arced and the headlight doors closed. Lol. I cleaned it all off with a wire brush and tightened it back up. Worked great after that.

 

[RJRENTON]

Ok, the rules are;
1. You must explain the process in the most simple terms (being that Electrics are my Achilles heel).
2. Pictures would really be helpful.
3. always consider rule 1 for any answer.

Now, let’s move on to the current dilemma ( see what I did there ? Haha, current..).
My ‘71 charger has hideaway head lights. They do not work. I can manually crank them up or down in an emergency, but it is not an ideal situation. I do not know all the parts and pieces required for this system to function.
Would someone be willing to make a very simple line diagram with pictures of the major players (remember rule 1)? At least armed with that I could make sure I have the necessary components for the system. After that we could move on to testing (if all components are there and it still doesn’t function).

I would really appreciate the help.

Thank you,
Skytrooper

Ans to rule 1: DO YOU HAVE A FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL (FSM) FOR YOUR CAR?
Ans to rule 2: can you read and understand a simple schematic diagram?
A fundamental knowledge of electrical circuits would be very helpful AND a simple V'-O-M (Volt, Ohm Meter....like Harbor freight (inexpensive) or Fluke (expensive but very accurate) and the knowledge of how to use it and understanding circuit component testing and circuit pathways....like a roadmap.
If yes to all of sbove ..... great, let's begin.....if not, perhaps, you should consider having it professionally repaired or at least looked at by someone with some fundamental knowledge of electrical systems......just my opinion of course.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Skytrooper]

Ans to rule 1: DO YOU HAVE A FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL (FSM) FOR YOUR CAR?
Ans to rule 2: can you read and understand a simple schematic diagram?
A fundamental knowledge of electrical circuits would be very helpful AND a simple V'-O-M (Volt, Ohm Meter....like Harbor freight (inexpensive) or Fluke (expensive but very accurate) and the knowledge of how to use it and understanding circuit component testing and circuit pathways....like a roadmap.
If yes to all of sbove ..... great, let's begin.....if not, perhaps, you should consider having it professionally repaired or at least looked at by someone with some fundamental knowledge of electrical systems......just my opinion of course.....
BOB RENTON

Bob, I worked in military aviation the majority of my life. Electrics are not my specialty and I take a degree of umbrage to the tone of your reply. I know my weaknesses, do you ?

To answer your questions, I have the FSM, I have a simple multimeter, I CAN read schematics. I am not an expert in testing circuits and components of electrical systems, as I am sure you are not familiar with the process of replacing turbine blades in an aircraft engine. We all have weaknesses in our worldly knowledge, but you “*** forward” reply boggles the mind. I must have forgotten you were a Rhodes Scholar. Maybe next time, don’t reply, you opinion wasn’t asked for.

 

[RJRENTON]

Bob, I worked in military aviation the majority of my life. Electrics are not my specialty and I take a degree of umbrage to the tone of your reply. I know my weaknesses, do you ?

To answer your questions, I have the FSM, I have a simple multimeter, I CAN read schematics. I am not an expert in testing circuits and components of electrical systems, as I am sure you are not familiar with the process of replacing turbine blades in an aircraft engine. We all have weaknesses in our worldly knowledge, but you “*** forward” reply boggles the mind. I must have forgotten you were a Rhodes Scholar. Maybe next time, don’t reply, you opinion wasn’t asked for.

No disrespect....but one needs to determine their limitations or overall knowledge b4 launching into a trouble shooting procedure.
The trouble with the Army or the other service groups is the methodology used.....my experience is usually the "brute force and blind ignorance" procedure, or do as I say, and do not think.....or as in the origional boot camp procedures, the first Sergeant or Drill Instructor would proclaim, when policing the company area: "pick it up if you can, if not, paint it, if you cannot paint it, you salute it....all I want to see is elbows and *** holes....now HIT IT".....one must start somewhere.....
WHAT TESTS have you performed and the results achieved?.....starting at the voltage source....one component at a time and ending at the actuator motor(s)......its usually the internal travel limit switches that cause the most trouble due to dirt and moisture. .....please advise....
BOB RENTON

 

[Skytrooper]

Bob,
The only thing that I have tried was using a jumper to power the motor. This was back in the early summer. Right now the car is “bagged and tagged” until the weather gets better. I am working on a plan of attack. I know my abilities and capabilitie s. This is not difficult. I just want a simple walk through of the steps entailed. This being due to my weak understanding of vehicle electronics and component testing. Once I have been through it…I will remember it. I could battle my way through it like I did for the tail light wiring, that was non existant. I won the fight, but it was a frustrating experience. I would like to avoid the frustration. This is the reason that in my original post, I asked for a simple description of the process…because I am clueless. Could I figure it out ? Without a doubt, yes. Is asking the braintrust here for a leg up a bad thing ? There are so many folks willing to share their knowledge. I would be stupid not to ask.
Once I dig into it in earnest, I will update.

 

[Don Frelier]

I can help with this.
I'll give you a call tomorrow.

 

[moparedtn]

MyMopar
Download both the parts manual and the service manual for a '71. Bet you can figure it out from there.

 

[Builderguy]

Maybe this will help a little ?????

 

[Skytrooper]

I can help with this.
I'll give you a call tomorrow.

I appreciate it Don. I am not in a rush as the car is all wrapped for the cold weather.

I appreciate all the help and tips guys ! I just want to get my head wrapped around this before cruising' time