1. RJRENTON

    RJRENTON FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    I guess there are several old addages that may apply....learning about the unknown and how it may effect you, specifically the science of statics, dynamics and strength of materials....all of which are applicable to the automotive industry. And possibly the addage that..."ignorance is bliss..." ....maybe not...it depends one's point of view...
    BOB RENTON
     
  2. pwr440

    pwr440 Active Member

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    • pwr440

      pwr440 Active Member

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      That stance looks awesome kern dog....beautiful ride
       
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      • 747mopar

        747mopar FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        I don't buy it either, I look at today's bearings that come on modern cars along with the suspension components and see nothing that's more robust. Also I'm pretty sure my rim and tire package is lighter than or at least very comparable to the factory while maintaining the same OD. Another big difference is road conditions, today's roads (at least where I live) are all in excellent condition, all paved and smooth so the need for tall sidewalls and plentiful ground clearance is minimal. In the end it's what you want, I for one hate the squishy feel of a tall sidewall. 20150906_162916.jpg
         
        Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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        • RJRENTON

          RJRENTON FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Your comment about TODAY'S bearings are more robust is true to some extent....but today's cars are lighter and the bearings are sized for the load they must carry..... The REFERENCE was to our 50 YO cars...which are heavier and their bearings designed and selected for those conditions of the period....no "sticky" oversize tires and wheel assemblies. Whether you consider the possibility of overloading the bearing assemblies is totally up to you. To whole point was to make you (generically) of the possibility of catastrophic component failure by exceeding the origional design parameters.....i, personally, don't care what you do to your car or how its operated.
          BOB RENTON
           
        • Kern Dog

          Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Lighter?
          My Wife's 2015 Challenger weighs 200 lbs MORE than my 4000 lb Charger!
           
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          • 747mopar

            747mopar FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Lighter??? Your kidding right??

            I remember when I installed my lift and figured I'd throw my lightest car on it for the first test (Chevy Cruze), after I got done I read the data tag.... 4,000lbs!!!! It weighs more than my Charger! Cars nowadays.. luxury, collision reinforcements, airbags, sound deadening, lbs and lbs of copper wire, etc, etc are standard. Old cars are sheet metal and running gear and very little else.
             
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            • mopar 3 B

              mopar 3 B Well-Known Member

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              Strange conversation here. We are still discussing 40 years later. I remember being told these cars wouldn't survive the wide oval days of the 70's.
               
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              • alfaitalia

                alfaitalia FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                RJRENTON.....you need to do a little more research...your belief, proof, and method of deduction is flawed. Weights for one thing...it would take a very badly engineered or hugely heavy alloy wheel to be heavier than factory steel. Also although changing the backspacing might change the angle that the load is applied to the bearing...the differences are slight. Over on the Jeep forum where some have massive heavy steels with even heavier off road tyres with often very low BS...Lots of wheels in this thread will still have the same percentage of wheel either side of the bearing anyway...there is more to it that just backspacing.(There was a brilliant post on the same subject...I will find it)...But basically it made next to no difference to bearing life...or any other suspension component...the bearings are engineered well above coping with even the biggest wheels you are likely to fit....So as long as your car suspension is not full of cheap Chinese parts you will be fine.
                 
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                • Kern Dog

                  Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  It is nice to agree with people instead of arguing.
                   
                • 69_Coronet

                  69_Coronet Well-Known Member

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                  RJRENTON - I just wanted to confirm that your main concern regarding the wheel bearings has to do with the lateral loads seen due to today's stickier tires, is this correct? If so, I can see your point, particularly with regards to the "Green" ball bearings sometimes used as replacement rear wheel bearings. Cheers!
                   
                • Kern Dog

                  Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  I think he is concerned with the vertical and radial loading due to increased weight and offset. My 18x10" aluminum wheel probably weighs close to a 15x6 steel wheel or a Rallye though. Maybe I'll do an informal test and report back.
                  I can see his point but also think that they were probably OVER-designed originally and surely are capable of warning before failure.
                   
                  Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
                • alfaitalia

                  alfaitalia FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  No it isn't!:lol:
                   
                • mopar 3 B

                  mopar 3 B Well-Known Member

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                  My 15x8 steels are almost twice the weight of 15x10 aluminums. Who mounts 16-19 inch steels on their B bodies?
                   
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                  • 69_Coronet

                    69_Coronet Well-Known Member

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                    I recently changed from 15" Cragar S/S mags with BF Goodrich Radial T/A tires to 18" Torq Thrust II wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires and the weight of the wheel and tire assemblies dropped by about 10 lb per corner, more that I expected. As I recall, the weight savings were in both the wheel and the tire. I never checked the weight of the oiginal 14" steel wheels and tires, if I remember, I will weigh the spare when I get a chance.

                    I'm not sure what the offsets of the original wheels was, but the Torque Thrust IIs are 0 mm for the 18x9 fronts and 6 mm for the 18x10 rears. The rears are actually more positive on the new wheels, pulling them further in toward the centre of the vehicle than previously with the Cragars. I didn't record the offset of the original steel wheels, but I don't expect that they are very far from 0.

                    In general, I doubt the either unsprung weight or the wheel offsets will be an issue. As I mentioned above, the axial thrust load on the bearings will be higher with the sticky tires that it was with the originals, but I expect that, as you said, they were designed to have plenty of safety factor. Cheers!
                     
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                    • Dean Prevolos

                      Dean Prevolos Well-Known Member

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                      I just purchased 5 new 14x6 inch rims from Coker with 5 new redline P215/70R14.
                      I am right back to the 60's!
                       
                    • 6PKRTSE

                      6PKRTSE Well-Known Member

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                      Old school for me also. I switch mine around every couple of years. Only 15" for me on all the sets I have.
                       
                    • nstyle73

                      nstyle73 Well-Known Member

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                      Lot of shade tree engineers talking about stresses, loading and forces. These cars weren’t designed using FEA but until you know the factory designed FOS as well as the rated dynamic loading of the components such as the tapered roller bearings as well as the increase in the actual dynamic loads imposed by larger wheels, tires, brakes etc, you are just expressing an opinion. Some of those components are still being used in vehicles or even large equipment like farm equipment wheel bearings or pickup truck axles. Sometimes when you actually crunch the numbers, the results surprise you.
                       
                    • Kern Dog

                      Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      Beeker.jpg
                      What the heck ???
                       
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                      • MTBRider

                        MTBRider Well-Known Member

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                        Kern, you crack me up! Thanks for the laughs
                         
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