Comments about purists and haters is getting really old

[Pops1967GTX]

When it comes down to it......“There are two types of people in this world - people who have mopars and people who wish they could have a mopar.”

 

[NJRR]

I've read this thread and it has raised a number of questions in my mind. And it really comes down to degrees i think. What is a "purist"? What is a numbers matching car? What is original? What is stock? When does a car become a resto-mod?

From my own personal experience, here's two situations. Two cars back, I had a 70 Sat vert, 318, automatic. It was all matching numbers engine and trans, with just one repaint and a new top. How would that car be classified in my above questions? The reason I sold it is because I wanted a big block. I contemplated replacing the motor and trans, but decided not to cut up an "original?" car. I sold it to a Mopar guy in Florida and he knew the reasons why I was selling it. I spoke to him about a year later and he told me the car's great, that he dropped in a 383 and a 727. It sort of pissed me off, because he did exactly what I wanted to do but didn't in order to keep it as it was. Hey, that's life.

Now comes my second example, my current ride, a 70 RR. It is rotisserie restored and has the matching #'s engine/non-matching# 727. The guy I bought it from who did the restoration changed some things that are not on the fender tag/build sheet; he put in an air-grabber, go wing, switched to bucket seats with a console shift. Now, all of these "mods" were available as original equipment on the 70 RR. So what does this make my car? It's not original or numbers matching but can it be called stock? Once again, I was itching for a change and wanted a 4 speed. I had a similar dilemma as with the vert; do i swap the 727 for a 4 speed? I figured this car was so far from how it came from the factory, that putting in a 4 speed wouldn't be drastic, especially since I plan on using what was offered on the car originally (A833, pistol grip, etc). My "personal" preference is a stock appearance because I feel that's part of the nostalgia in driving these classic cars.

So my point is, everything is a matter of degrees and interpretation. A car is only "original" if it is the same as it came from the factory. Anything after that becomes a debate. Like others on here have mentioned, the one thing we all agree on is our love for Mopars !!!!

 

[MarPar]

it's all about levels, Jerry...

[video=youtube;aQyXeLSL0II]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQyXeLSL0II[/video]

There are all kinds of different levels of MoPars and i typically love them all. and if I don't, I keep my yap shut about it. .02

 

[Hemi Rebel]

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/images/smilies/sad2.gif BAD A$$ is what that is.

X2. Badass

 

[Michael789]

I say as long as your saving Mopars or any other classic for that matter ,it's all good . We need more of these cars on the road weather your a purist or not it doesn't matter ,it's what the individual wants with his or hers that's important. I was working on my 71 sat one day and two young teenage boys were walking by and stopped and said "that is a badass ride" they had no ideal what it was they just new it was an old car and they loved it ! Great thread.

 

[Runner 68]

Hey Tallhair, i suppose at one time or another I have been a purist, at other times I am most probably a hater. But I guess at all those times i am really just another dick head with an opinion. Actually I am really neither a purist or a hater, I am just a man that loves all kinds of cars. The work and skills that other car buffs do to their cars excites me and I find it very interesting. I have never found knocking other folks items to be a good way to make friends, so if I really do not like something someone else has done I try to keep it to myself...when I can.

I try to not offend anyone here and hope I haven't. Even here lately i am finding some of R.C. posts much more to my liking. So there is a remote possibility that my one track mind is expanding. LOL!

Great dick heads think alike.

 

[Bruzilla]

The first point I would disagree with is that Purists don't make a lot of comments on this forum. They do. No, they don't come out and say "you're a fool for using non-original parts" or anything like that. But I do see a lot of comments made when someone asks what should be used or done, and the answer starts with "I always use...", or "I would only use..." etc. So I would disagree that the purists aren't offering opinions, especially when a request for what should be used is responded with a statement that "you" would only do something that's original to the car.

But I think a reality check is warranted on this topic. There aren't many things that bother me on this forum, but one of them that bothers me greatly is when someone new comes on and they're mixing statements like "I want to restore my car the right way" or "I want my car to be 100% original", or "I see what you guys have done to restore your car and I want to do the same thing" with statements like "I have no money/time/space/knowledge" or "I have no experience with this hobby", or "my budget is very limited", and the replies from the forum are like "welcome to the forum, and good luck on your car. I have a 100% original blah, blah, blah."

I think all of us who've been around the collector car hobby, especially the Mopar end of it, for any period of time have a deep understanding and appreciation for the level of effort it takes to do a great restoration job. We know how much it costs, how much time it takes, how pissed the wife is going to get, etc., which is why I think a lot of us on the non-purist side try to give a bit of a reality check to members, especially newcomers, who come on talking about wanting to do full-up restos when what they really want/need is a good, solid, driver car that they can afford. We've all met these guys in real life, or seen their ads on Craigslist or ebay, and know them by the project car that they dropped thousands into only to run out of cash, time, or spousal support and now have to sell at a loss.

So while some purists might take some comments as being critical of them, or critical of doing restorations, I think they should be taken for what they are, which is a reality check to someone to help them focus on exactly what they want from their car. If they have a car that's common, that they want to change the engine in, that they can't wait to drive, and have a limited budget, and they say they want to do a restoration on it, someone needs to boing them on the head with a healthy dose of reality. This is especially the case for guys who either buy cars, or are planning to buy cars, that they want to restore to 100% original because they think that's the best thing to do. Sometimes it is the right thing to do, but many times it isn't, and they need someone to tell them that instead of feeding their delusions that "right" restos can be done quickly or cheaply.

 

[Budnicks]

The first point I would disagree with is that Purists don't make a lot of comments on this forum. They do. No, they don't come out and say "you're a fool for using non-original parts" or anything like that. But I do see a lot of comments made when someone asks what should be used or done, and the answer starts with "I always use...", or "I would only use..." etc. So I would disagree that the purists aren't offering opinions, especially when a request for what should be used is responded with a statement that "you" would only do something that's original to the car.

But I think a reality check is warranted on this topic. There aren't many things that bother me on this forum, but one of them that bothers me greatly is when someone new comes on and they're mixing statements like "I want to restore my car the right way" or "I want my car to be 100% original", or "I see what you guys have done to restore your car and I want to do the same thing" with statements like "I have no money/time/space/knowledge" or "I have no experience with this hobby", or "my budget is very limited", and the replies from the forum are like "welcome to the forum, and good luck on your car. I have a 100% original blah, blah, blah."

I think all of us who've been around the collector car hobby, especially the Mopar end of it, for any period of time have a deep understanding and appreciation for the level of effort it takes to do a great restoration job. We know how much it costs, how much time it takes, how pissed the wife is going to get, etc., which is why I think a lot of us on the non-purist side try to give a bit of a reality check to members, especially newcomers, who come on talking about wanting to do full-up restos when what they really want/need is a good, solid, driver car that they can afford. We've all met these guys in real life, or seen their ads on Craigslist or ebay, and know them by the project car that they dropped thousands into only to run out of cash, time, or spousal support and now have to sell at a loss.

So while some purists might take some comments as being critical of them, or critical of doing restorations, I think they should be taken for what they are, which is a reality check to someone to help them focus on exactly what they want from their car. If they have a car that's common, that they want to change the engine in, that they can't wait to drive, and have a limited budget, and they say they want to do a restoration on it, someone needs to boing them on the head with a healthy dose of reality. This is especially the case for guys who either buy cars, or are planning to buy cars, that they want to restore to 100% original because they think that's the best thing to do. Sometimes it is the right thing to do, but many times it isn't, and they need someone to tell them that instead of feeding their delusions that "right" restos can be done quickly or cheaply.

yes it definitely goes both ways... haters will be haters either way, there's plenty of room for both purists & performance addicts here... just go to any wheel & tire suggestion post, you will see all the different views/opinions/arguments & that's just the tires & wheels :yes_no: ... hthedrama:

 

[Bruzilla]

yes it definitely goes both ways... haters will be haters either way, there's plenty of room for both purists & performance addicts here... just go to any wheel & tire suggestion post, you will see all the different views/opinions/arguments & that's just the tires & wheels :yes_no: ... hthedrama:

I don't look at it is haters or being hateful. All that I hate is seeing someone coming to the forum with unrealistic expectations of what they are about to get themselves into, and people seeming to push them along because the person wants to do what they like to do. We need some folks to be the adult in the chat room and tell the new guy whoa... before you head down the golden brick road of restoration there's a few things you better consider, starting with your goals for the car. That's not being anti-purist, just realistic.

 

[Runner 68]

yes it definitely goes both ways... haters will be haters either way, there's plenty of room for both purists & performance addicts here... just go to any wheel & tire suggestion post, you will see all the different views/opinions/arguments & that's just the tires & wheels :yes_no: ... hthedrama:

If you really want to push a few buttons, ask some questions about Fender Tags and Broadcast Sheets.

 

[super-bee_ski]

tallhair,
Yeah, I mentioned a few times about tires and wheels looking stupid (Big Wheels, new style, on old cars)
Sorry to hurt feelings.

 

[Durandal25]

.....I sort of fit into the purist category until the point where I could not afford the advice I was getting on restorations. The fact remains that many cars are way beyond the average persons budget and skill and thus getting into a car that's complete and original is expensive to say the least. I try to get my cars back to spec and the look, but if a piece or two fail to appear or are incorrect, well I loose no sleep over it......I really wanted a 67 R/T Coronet, but could never find one that was complete and anywhere near the money I was spending so I kept at until I got my red 67 440. I love it to death, but will be dropping a 440 motor in it in the spring and then restoring the numbers matching 383 to be kept safe and sound.....some folks would really kick my butt for that, but I'm not really doing the car an injustice as I am not selling it.....ever, hehe.

 

[modernistsouth]

I don't look at it is haters or being hateful. All that I hate is seeing someone coming to the forum with unrealistic expectations of what they are about to get themselves into, and people seeming to push them along because the person wants to do what they like to do. We need some folks to be the adult in the chat room and tell the new guy whoa... before you head down the golden brick road of restoration there's a few things you better consider, starting with your goals for the car. That's not being anti-purist, just realistic.

I'm sure you have the best intentions with your advice. And you really didn't mean to be condescending with your reference by being the "adult in the room". I'm new to this forum, and I also had no idea what I was getting into when my dad gave me one of his Roadrunners that had been sitting on my grandmother's property for 34 years. I'm a hell of a metal worker and pretty damned skilled at mechanicals. But, I'm also a poor *** teacher with a limited budget. If I can fully restore this Roadrunner, I will. Until then, I will do the best I can to get it on the road again, because that's more restored than it was last year. Unless the purists or whoever plan on rotisserie restoring every single surviving MOPAR left on the planet, they will just have to live with guys like me. I will offer advice when I have it, and will ask for advice when I need it. I fully expect someone to say "I would only use…" when they give their opinion, because that's what an opinion is. But the last thing I need is someone else to raise me and suggest to me what I'm getting into. If my, or anyone else's, intention is to get their car fully restored to factory specs, and life forces some adjustments, then so be it. It's my bed. People need to get over themselves. A collaborative community is not like that.

 

[Runner 68]

.....I sort of fit into the purist category until the point where I could not afford the advice I was getting on restorations. The fact remains that many cars are way beyond the average persons budget and skill and thus getting into a car that's complete and original is expensive to say the least. I try to get my cars back to spec and the look, but if a piece or two fail to appear or are incorrect, well I loose no sleep over it......I really wanted a 67 R/T Coronet, but could never find one that was complete and anywhere near the money I was spending so I kept at until I got my red 67 440. I love it to death, but will be dropping a 440 motor in it in the spring and then restoring the numbers matching 383 to be kept safe and sound.....some folks would really kick my butt for that, but I'm not really doing the car an injustice as I am not selling it.....ever, hehe.

Exactly, my car is matching but I'm putting a 100% after market drive train in so I can hammer on it. The original gear will be left safe on stands so after I'm in my grave somebody can put it back to concourse if they want to. I draw the line at cutting on a solid car (e.g. tubs), so somebody can't put it back if they want to. Lots o rust buckets out there for the radical stuff.

 

[tallhair]

If you really want to push a few buttons, ask some questions about Fender Tags and Broadcast Sheets.

So no one should tell them what the codes mean or where they can get the information they are asking for? Only what tires and wheel options are available and how large a set up they can fit?

btw you pushed no buttons to manipulate that response I'm just trying to understand your point. There are people who genuinely want that information and they shouldn't be made a fool of to be asking those questions.

 

[Runner 68]

So no one should tell them what the codes mean or where they can get the information they are asking for? Only what tires and wheel options are available and how large a set up they can fit?

Jesus Long Hair, I knew I shouldn't have jumped in on this thread. Did I wrong you in another life? Did I screw your sister and not know it?

Fender tag figured out (no thanks to the brothers on FBBO), rims and tires figured out, at least for now. Have a beer and get a slice of pie. Relax dude. Life is too short and you're too young.

BTW, still got that fender? If we can strike a deal, I will convert it to a 68. Will that piss you off?

 

[Budnicks]

So no one should tell them what the codes mean or where they can get the information they are asking for? Only what tires and wheel options are available and how large a set up they can fit?

btw you pushed no buttons to manipulate that response I'm just trying to understand your point. There are people who genuinely want that information and they shouldn't be made a fool of to be asking those questions.

Tallhair I don't think he's saying that at all, maybe I'm getting this all wrong, but I don't think so... IMHFO he's just playing off my comments about tires & wheels sizes, saying people cant even agree on the fender tags & build/broadcast sheets... it's sometimes a touchy subjects, for some people I guess too... like I said "haters {not hatter} will be haters", no matter what is said in this tread... There will always be those, who like one certain way of building a car, polar opposites sometimes, then bar none & you can't/won't ever change their opinions or beliefs, you can just respect what they want to do, with there own car &/or opinions & ignore the ones that you don't agree with or debate the subject like civil adults... Or just don't ask for opinions if you can't handle some negative comments/posts... Guys will be guys, it's the nature of the beast... Just agree to disagree

 

[tallhair]

Jesus Long Hair, I knew I shouldn't have jumped in on this thread. Did I wrong you in another life? Did I screw your sister and not know it?

Fender tag figured out, rims and tires figured out, at least for now. Have a beer and get a slice of pie. Relax dude. Life is too short and you're too young.

BTW, still got that fender?

I have no vendetta against you runner. You are as welcome here as anyone else of course and I'm just relaxing and asked you a clarifying question and you responded with a pretty offensive remark and started making some assumptions. I'm not wound up at all and could care less what you do with your numbers matching car you keep touting.

I only started this thread to ask folks to cool the slamming on a group, and I don't consider myself a purist so everyone coming on to tell how they are going to modify their cars is not a problem. We all modify our cars except a very small minority that I really think never speaks or is not ever here.

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Tallhair I don't think he's saying that at all, he's just playing off my comments about tires & wheels sizes, saying people cant even agree on the fender tags & build sheets... touchy subjects for some people I guess...

I'm not being touchy budnicks. I really do not care what someone does with their car. I just try to contribute where I can and if someone asks a question I can answer I will or try to point them in the right direction.

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Tallhair I don't think he's saying that at all, maybe I'm getting this all wrong, but I don't think so... IMHFO he's just playing off my comments about tires & wheels sizes, saying people cant even agree on the fender tags & build/broadcast sheets... it's sometimes a touchy subjects, for some people I guess too... like I said "hatters will be hatters", no matter what is said in this tread... There will always be those, who like one certain way of building a car, polar opposites sometimes, then bar none & you can't/won't ever change their opinions or beliefs, you can just respect what they want to do, with there own car &/or opinions & ignore the ones that you don't agree with or debate the subject like civil adults... Or just don't ask for opinions if you can't handle some negative comments/posts... Guys will be guys, it's the nature of the beast... Just agree to disagree

I concur haters will be haters. But I haven't see the elusive Mad Purist Hatter. What do they look like?

 

[Budnicks]

I'm not being touchy budnicks. I really do not care what someone does with their car. I just try to contribute where I can and if someone asks a question I can answer I will or try to point them in the right direction.

I was just generalizing for all members not just you, I know you help people allot, I try to help allot of people also, BUT I'm also a realist not an optimist & some people don't like to hear that either, especially when talking about financial aspects of build & whether it's worth saving or not... I guess that could be interpreted as being a "hater" also... Don't need to go there either sometimes, but we often do... I've been called brutally honest by many people I know... I think there are allot of slighted/snide remarks by "hatters" of any type, example just get 10 car guys/gals in a room, talking about cars & especially Mopars it seems, none of them will agree on everything ever... A Fickled Bunch we all are, we all love our Mopars, just differently.... Personally I believe they are only original once, that's how they were built from the factory, everything else is a facsimile of what came out of the factory, even if it's a 100% OEM Correct #'s Matching Restoration... No-one will ever convince me otherwise... that's just my opinion, not an insult...

 

[Runner 68]

I see, it's my Joke tag isn't it. Posted again below for those who missed it.

I'm damn proud of the fact that I kept a car I bought when I was 16. Super solid, it's all there, numbers match, found the broadcast sheet (in car from the LA plant) which aren't supposed to exist. One of the smartest things I have ever done was to keep this car. My only rub is that I was too stupid to keep track of the damn tag.

What's your rub?