Don't be fooled by aftermarket cooling systems

[bigmanjbmopar]

Can't really read the article unless you subscribe, can you post the article in its whole here? Also here is a suggestion and references for anyone thinking of choosing an aluminum radiator http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...02-Aluminum-Radiator-upgrade-Change-Read-this Although my system with 2 rows of 1" tubes which work, 1-1/2" tubes would be the preference. and maybe on the next one I will upsize. I don't think you need to spend $600+ either on one, these can be had for half of that with the same good weld quality.

 

[69BBody]

Ask and ye shall receive...

 

[Shorthorse]

I would absolutely agree that a manufacturer engineered cooling system design on a stock multiple production engine is as good as it gets. It's science. They are "engineered" by professionals that know and understand heat transfer and dissipation in relation to each engine, body design and cooling system combination they produce.
But.......that's for stock configurations. Once you modify anything up front, whether it be the engine, add a front mounted cooler or change any sheetmetal that might alter the original design of the air flow, you have altered the original calculated design of the engineers. Will the original cooling system be efficient on a 500 HP motor? What about 600 HP? I could go on but there is a limit somewhere.
There is a big difference between street driven cars and race cars. I race a car. A race car that might run a total of 10 to 20 minutes from the pits to the staging lanes, on the track and back to the pits and cooling is extremely important but it's short lived. A street car may run for a long time whether cruising or a long road trip. To me that would be a real test of any cooling system.
Regardless, once you have altered the car enough to necessitate changes/upgrades, your on your own. Those engineers aren't able to help you now. It's about your combination and trial and error. Oh yes, and money.
Good Luck!

 

[Cranky]

These days it's not so much trail and error as the engineers these days know what works on modified cars. I could go on and on but man, there's so much info on the net about cooling it's just a no brainer to do some research on the subject.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Anyone thinking Chrysler only designed cooling systems for production vehicles in the 50's and 60's are fooling themselves. Remember those were the years of grand national stock cars and 500 mile races. Highly modified engines and not so far from stock bodies.

 

[Shorthorse]

Anyone thinking Chrysler only designed cooling systems for production vehicles in the 50's and 60's are fooling themselves. Remember those were the years of grand national stock cars and 500 mile races. Highly modified engines and not so far from stock bodies.

True but that wasn't the car you drove home from the dealership.

 

[Photon440]

True but that wasn't the car you drove home from the dealership.

But it LOOKED like the same car, back when you could look at an unpainted stock car and tell what it was.

 

[mopar 3 B]

True but that wasn't the car you drove home from the dealership.

Neither was the car that started all this. So whats your point?

 

[BBishere2]

Due to leaking old radiator, I replaced it with a BeCool aluminum one. Previous owner had installed an electric fan on front of the old radiator with a toggle switch. The mechanical fan was within an inch of the radiator with no shroud - 22" radiator in the '65.

I left the electric fan off as I never saw the temp get high enough to need it. I found a crack in my water pump housing right under the old thermostat so I replaced the old iron with a new aluminum housing, high volume pump and a high flow 180 degree thermostat. The mechanical fan now sets further away from the radiator. btw, the heater is not plumbed in the system.

We'll watch the temp with the new setup and see what happens. Can always install a shroud and fan spacer and if that doesn't work, we'll put an electric fan on it.

I forgot to mention that I added a B&M trans cooler to help out too. Time will tell.

 

[Scrawny Pete]

Excellent info! My father in law ditched everything except the 22" radiator on his 383. Now he's running a supposed 2100 cfm electric fan, 42gpm electric water pump and an aftermarket a/c unit. Which is causing heating issues. What is the preferred online store to get the factory stuff for a decent price? His factory stuff is long gone. Thanks in advance.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Same old story if he is overheating there are other issues like timing is off or cylinder walls are thin from being rusted out or blockages aftermarket cooling is what is cooling all modern cars now you cant just say the OE stuff should go back on until you've pulled the motor and gone through it. Hell even using a differnt oil can cause overheating

 

[mlktst]

Due to leaking old radiator, I replaced it with a BeCool aluminum one. Previous owner had installed an electric fan on front of the old radiator with a toggle switch. The mechanical fan was within an inch of the radiator with no shroud - 22" radiator in the '65.

I left the electric fan off as I never saw the temp get high enough to need it. I found a crack in my water pump housing right under the old thermostat so I replaced the old iron with a new aluminum housing, high volume pump and a high flow 180 degree thermostat. The mechanical fan now sets further away from the radiator. btw, the heater is not plumbed in the system.

We'll watch the temp with the new setup and see what happens. Can always install a shroud and fan spacer and if that doesn't work, we'll put an electric fan on it.

I forgot to mention that I added a B&M trans cooler to help out too. Time will tell.

Good morning I have a well used 383 It would get warm at idle. I replaced stock 22"radiator with a Champion 26" inexpensive easy swap Then a mechanical fan no clutch 160 degree thermostat. Car runs 160 never over 175 I live in South Texas it is VERY hot out there. Fan is metal and heavy today my maradyne Texas Twister 12ounce plastic fan will arrive I will let you know how it works or doesn't.

 

[Scrawny Pete]

Same old story if he is overheating there are other issues like timing is off or cylinder walls are thin from being rusted out or blockages aftermarket cooling is what is cooling all modern cars now you cant just say the OE stuff should go back on until you've pulled the motor and gone through it. Hell even using a differnt oil can cause overheating

That was my first thought that the block had been bored out too much. After being on the dyno and it still over heating. Which triggered me to question him on the short block specs. He swears its only 30 over but when I called the guy that originally built the car. He said he never took the bottom end apart. So... Right now it's a mystery to what's even in there. Also, I can find recipes and papers for everything but what's in the short block and the torque converter. I was trying to avoid tearing his engine apart but that's starting to look like the best starting point.

 

[HT413]

Excellent info! My father in law ditched everything except the 22" radiator on his 383. Now he's running a supposed 2100 cfm electric fan, 42gpm electric water pump and an aftermarket a/c unit. Which is causing heating issues. What is the preferred online store to get the factory stuff for a decent price? His factory stuff is long gone. Thanks in advance.

First, as stated, before throwing money at it, check the simple stuff.

What exactly are his cooling issues? At idle, at speed, both? At idle = air flow issues, at speed = water flow issues. Though an over simplification, it's a starting point. Timing can affect all of the above and should be checked first.

With the 383, what level of hp are we taking about? Remember, factory stuff won't cool a 700 hp stroker either.

Check the simple stuff:

Engine:
Timing
Water jackets scaled / plugged?

Radiator
Suction hose collapsing?
Radiator fins bent/plugged/blocked?
Radiator tubes plugged?

The aftermarket AC:
is the condenser allowing proper air flow?
Is condenser positioned correctly?

Electric water pump:
What make is it?
Chinese pumps don't flow their advertised GPM.
Is this a race car? Even Meziere recommends their 300 series pump for street, which I believe is 55 GPM.
really moving at full capacity?
Ready for a rebuild?
seeing correct voltage?

Fans:
Electric fans seeing correct voltage?
on full time or on a stat?
Stat setting correct?
Shroud present / doing its job/ sealed?
Fans spinning correct direction?
Pusher fans set up to pull?
Puller fans set up to push?
Are they enough CFM for the amount of horsepower ?

 

[HT413]

That was my first thought that the block had been bored out too much. After being on the dyno and it still over heating. Which triggered me to question him on the short block specs. He swears its only 30 over but when I called the guy that originally built the car. He said he never took the bottom end apart. So... Right now it's a mystery to what's even in there. Also, I can find recipes and papers for everything but what's in the short block and the torque converter. I was trying to avoid tearing his engine apart but that's starting to look like the best starting point.

Whoa there, tearing an engine apart is not a reasonable solution to cooling issues.

 

[mlktst]

I would run compression test before I tore engine down.

 

[Dreamcatcher]

Years back some of fords infamous 400's had terrible heating problems(78 and 79). It was found that the line bore was off so much the crank was causing internal heating problem's. Father-in-law had one of these in a pickup. Took it to a machine shop had it line bored and it never ran hot again. Just saying you just never know.

 

[Scrawny Pete]

Whoa there, tearing an engine apart is not a reasonable solution to cooling issues.

Usually it is an irrational action but no one knows exactly what's in the short block. Not even the guy that built the car. That's a huge red flag on any engine that the owner is wanting to push it to its limits. I planned on doing a compression test before like suggested above but as of recent. I've washed my hands of the car due to me refusing to reinstall a D-1 Procharger that my father in law wants back on it. I basically called him an idiot for wanting to put a 800-900hp supercharger on a mystery short block.

So it's all irrelevant to me at this point. But I appreciate everyone that has replied and took the time to help me out. Good luck with all your builds. Thanks, Pete

 

[BBishere2]

Due to leaking old radiator, I replaced it with a BeCool aluminum one. Previous owner had installed an electric fan on front of the old radiator with a toggle switch. The mechanical fan was within an inch of the radiator with no shroud - 22" radiator in the '65.

I left the electric fan off as I never saw the temp get high enough to need it. I found a crack in my water pump housing right under the old thermostat so I replaced the old iron with a new aluminum housing, high volume pump and a high flow 180 degree thermostat. The mechanical fan now sets further away from the radiator. btw, the heater is not plumbed in the system.

We'll watch the temp with the new setup and see what happens. Can always install a shroud and fan spacer and if that doesn't work, we'll put an electric fan on it.

I forgot to mention that I added a B&M trans cooler to help out too. Time will tell.

Recent update - the front edge of fan is 2.25" from radiator - running around 205 degrees consistently and climbed to a little over 210 after idling about 10 minutes. I'm going to put a 1-1/2" spacer on it and get the fan down to 3/4" away from radiator to see how much change we get before installing a shroud.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

What is the factory spacing?

Recent update - the front edge of fan is 2.25" from radiator - running around 205 degrees consistently and climbed to a little over 210 after idling about 10 minutes. I'm going to put a 1-1/2" spacer on it and get the fan down to 3/4" away from radiator to see how much change we get before installing a shroud.