Ductile Iron Rockers: Outdated? Or good investment?

[lewtot184]

Well it all goes back to what you plan to use it for. If you is just an everyday driver worrying about that little bit of geometry will never be noticed in seat of the pants. That also goes for the high lift extreme ramp cams. If you are looking for driveability and dependability your cam will not be that extreme. As for ductile iron lifetime, I've seen irrgation pumps with old 413 industrial engines still running just fine with ductile iron rockers. Seems to me the time for roller rockers is when you are hunting ever ounce of power you can find. While I've not seen a trunion bearing go bad I have seen roller tips go bad and without a lot of mileage.
All in all, that what's great, to each his own, he was asking opinions, we all gave one.

 

[lewtot184]

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with power. It's about not eating up the valve guides because somebody is too lazy or dumb to set up geometry. But, if your lazy or ignorant of a subject why would you care about reliability; especially with ductile iron rockers.

 

[RemCharger]

Thinking the roller tip makes power is delusional. A roller trunion on a ball stud set up has to be more stable. Setting geometry with a roller tip on a shaft system is easier than setting a scrub pattern on a traditional rocker. Thinking long term reliability with something like a crane or factory iron isn't going to happen, especially with modern cam lobes and spring pressures. Keep in mind the higher the lift the longer the scrub pattern and a valve tip just has so much real estate. Anybody who's messed with various ductile iron rockers for any length of time knows they are a short term part. I've been running a set of crane gold rockers on a 440, solidifter cam, for 20+ yrs and so far without issue. From my experience ductile iron would never last that long.

I think this discussion has confirmed a thought I've had about people wanting iron. They either don't believe setting geometry is important, don't know how or why they should set geometry, and probably don't have experience between the roller and non-roller tips.

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with power. It's about not eating up the valve guides because somebody is too lazy or dumb to set up geometry. But, if your lazy or ignorant of a subject why would you care about reliability; especially with ductile iron rockers.

What are you referring to by saying, set the geometry.
Changing the rocker shaft location?

 

[68Satellite440]

Does anyone know someone with experience with the new 440 source Ductile rockers?
They don’t say who they had make them. Just say its a Ma mopar copy.

 

[1KoolBee]

Issue is not whether rollers make more power or not, rather it is a matter of geometry and effect in guide/valve wear. Irons work great on factory heads, but they won’t line up properly on modern aluminum aftermarket heads. I’m simply trying to share what I learned from my last build. I tried crane 1.6 irons, isky 1.6 irons, and regular Harland Sharps to no avail. Spent a ****-ton of time and $ sorting things out. I now have an .030 sweep centered in the valve tip with the “KE” Sharps with no grinding for pushrod clearance . So if you want spend good money to kill your guides and grind away the pushrod holes on your new eddy/stealth/TF heads, go for it.

 

[gkent]

What are "KE" Sharps ???

 

[68Satellite440]

Issue is not whether rollers make more power or not, rather it is a matter of geometry and effect in guide/valve wear. Irons work great on factory heads, but they won’t line up properly on modern aluminum aftermarket heads. I’m simply trying to share what I learned from my last build. I tried crane 1.6 irons, isky 1.6 irons, and regular Harland Sharps to no avail. Spent a ****-ton of time and $ sorting things out. I now have an .030 sweep centered in the valve tip the the “KE” Sharps with no grinding for pushrod clearance . So if you want spend good money to kill your guides and grind away the pushrod holes on your new eddy/stealth/TF heads, go for it.

Good thing I’m running 906s and 452s..

 

[BSB67]

I’m simply trying to share what I learned from my last build.

Can you share the specifics of your learning, like:

“…..I got 0.0015” taper wear on my silicon bronze guides after 6,000 miles and 3.55 gear with a 0.600 lift cam and 150/375 spring pressure….”

 

[70bigblockdodge]

If you buy them and have buyers remorse message me and I'll buy them from you.
There now you can buy them guilt free and I'm not explaining anything about why I want them.

 

[Sinitro]

Does anyone know someone with experience with the new 440 source Ductile rockers?
They don’t say who they had make them. Just say its a Ma mopar copy.

Made in China....
Too early to comment on quality, they look interesting and the price is cheap..
If 440Source did their homework and validated end production quality, then things should be OK...
Just my $0.02...

 

[68-500]

Edit: as to the 440 source rockers being produced in China.

I wish companies would move manufacturing back here. Id gladly pay more for a US made part. Theres still foundaries all over the US. For now Ill take my chances on a used part.
WAKE UP AMERICA!

 

[BSB67]

I wish companies would move manufacturing back here. Id gladly pay more for a US made part. Theres still foundaries all over the US. For now Ill take my chances on a used part.
WAKE UP AMERICA!

Your comment simply makes no sense, particularly in this discussion thread.

 

[68-500]

Your correct. I should have quoted Sinitro. About the 440 source rockers being produced in China.

 

[BSB67]

Your correct. I should have quoted Sinitro. About the 440 source rockers being produced in China.

My point was that there are other domestic suppliers that make really really good rocker arms but the typical Mopar guy is too cheap.

For $600, good rocker arms, for $800 great rocker arms, both with shafts and the rest of the hardware. Yet we’re going on and on about $250 rocker arms.

 

[Sinitro]

440Source gets the majority of their products from China...
As most Mopar guys know our unique parts have gotten very expensive compared to Chevy or Ford stuff so 440Source products can be attractive..
I have followed 440Source for many years, and can recall multiple experiences with their products, sold and installed by other Mopar guys.
I will withhold any further comments but strongly encourage each prospective puchaser of 440Source products, do your homework and review closely the multiple threads when they are mentioned..

Just my $0.02...

 

[threewood]

For what it's worth, the Crane ductile rockers I had that wore at the tips were made in the USA.

 

[1KoolBee]

What are "KE" Sharps ???

Part number SHPS70016KE Harland Sharps: 1.6 rockers for eddy style heads

 

[Sinitro]

For what it's worth, the Crane ductile rockers I had that wore at the tips were made in the USA.

Hmmm...
I had a crappy experience with Crane ductile rockers when I built my wedge motor, kept getting the lifter click. Would readjust the lifter load but turned out the tip was wearing through due to improper hardening. Brought a couple of defective rocker samples to the SEMA to talk with a Crane engineer about some replacements, the tech guy went virale yelling and screaming in their SEMA booth. I left the show and threw the rockers in the dumpster, purchased a set of Harland/Sharp rockers, installed and all is well many years later..

Just my $0.02...

 

[gkent]

Back in 1975 a buddy had a set of those Cranes. The grooves were worn so deep I think they were actually contacting and wearing at the retainer locks !!! I wouldn't take Crane's if you GAVE them to me.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I wouldn't say they're "garbage" HOWEVER keep a few things in mind ... the Cranes are an iron piece with hardened tips. I have seen MANY with significant wear at the valve end - rendering them useless. And once they start to wear there is no stopping it from getting worse. Also, they are not a bushed rocker so there is a greater tendency for them to gall both the rocker and the shaft. The Iskys with the hardened valve tip inserts would be a much better choice if you had a choice but they have the same non-bushed issue. Next is the price. I don't consider $250 a very good deal for these - even if they were brand new. There are some better choices out there - brand new for not a whole lot more money. This for example is an iron rocker, adjustable, roller tip AND bushed bore. Hands down, a far better choice.

View attachment 1569317

who makes these?