First start, some tips and advice?

[Malicious]

Hi,

Thinking about doing the first start on my 440 (68 Coronet) tomorrow and was looking for some tips and advice. I think the engine has run before, but I'm not going to count on it. I know the cam is new because I put it in. So at the least, I'm braking in the cam.

So far, I'm going to pour the break in oil over the rockers from above, then prime the oil pump from the distributor hole while slowly hand turning the crank. Sent the engine to TDC on 1st cylinder, install the distributor with the bottom blade facing parallel to the cam and have the distributor contact do hicker (forgot its name and its late here) toward cylinder 1.

Anything else?

I have 4 litres of oil in the trans, but the manual says including the converter it should use over 8 (18.5 pints). it is registering on the dipstick as full, so should I start it up then start quickly top up the trans while running?

Also the carb is new out of the box, supposedly ready to run. Should it be fine to brake in the cam? then tweak later?

There is no fuel in it at the moment, so I'll throw about 10 litres in the tank. To start I should just pour some fuel down the carb throat yeah? then as it starts it should pull the fuel through? Mech fuel pump.

Same with the timing, with the above should it be ok to just brake in the cam? and leave of the vac advance at the start?

Sorry to should like such a newbie, but I really don't was to fk it up!

Cheers!
Leigh

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Oh and I keep the RPM high for about 20 minutes during cam brake in yeah?

 

[moparedtn]

Sounds like you've got a good idea what to do.

When I broke in my 440 with a new Comp Cam, I followed their break-in procedure to the letter and it worked fine:
[video=youtube;re-VqHO3cH8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re-VqHO3cH8&feature=youtu.be[/video]
http://www.compcams.com/whatsnew/NewsDetails.aspx?ListHistoryID=1321022241

I adjusted timing and mixture and such while it was breaking in, tweaking it along the way.
Here's a video of mine during break-in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rM3lxoIFk0

 

[miller]

No such thing as a 'ready to run' carb out of the box. It's probably pre-set, so the motor will at least start. Main thing is not to run lean, especially first running, high RPM. You'll need to fine tune after break-in anyway. I usually richen mixture by an 1/8th turn, until things are settled.

No on fuel down the carb. Mech pump...pull the coil wire, and turn the motor over a few moments, to charge the pump and carb. You want a point where, when you work the throttle, you get the squirt of fuel in the carb, bowls full.

 

[69Runner]

As long as the transmission is just in Park I would not worry about topping it during the break-in. I would be more concerned the rad is topped up. Also notice the fan in front of the car in moparedtn's video, good thinking. Keeps air moving across the rad. Good luck!

 

[mmissile]

always have a fire extinguisher around.

 

[440roadrunner]

COOLANT. I ALWAYS fill the system with water / coolant with the heater hose disconnected. Fill until you get water out the nipple, then put the hose on. You want the top hose, next to the thermostat. many guys drill a small hole in the thermostat Recheck the level

OIL. Make sure you get oil up to the rockers. The rockers oil through holes aligned with cam rotation, so the crank/ cam must be in two specific spots to line up the cam holes. I just slowly rotate the engine with a wrench while priming

TIMING. Static timing by TDC and the rotor is NOT how this is done. First, you MUST determine if the no1 cylinder is "ready to fire" The timing marks do NOT tell you this. There is TWO WAYS to determine this. If either valve cover is off, bring the timing marks up to TDC and look at the no1 or no6 valves. Determine if they are both OPEN or both CLOSED. Make CERTAIN by wrenching the engine back and forth a few degrees. If both valves move, they are open.

The pair which are CLOSED are ready to fire. If you are at TDC and no1 are closed this is what you want. If no6 are closed, rotate the engine ONE turn

The SECOND way of determining is to stick your finger in the no1 plug hole, and 'bump' the starter. "Feel" for compression it will blow your finger out. When you START to feel that (takes practice) stop and watch for the timing marks. Wrench the timing marks up BUT DO NOT set them at TDC. Set them instead for WHERE you want the timing. With a mild cam, at least 12-15 BTC. With a hot cam, 15-20BTDC.

Now look at the dist. The rotor should be approaching the no1 plug tower, or if not you can simply move the plug wires. SO FAR AS distr gear and dist orientation, some distributors do NOT have the rotor aligned with the drive tang in the same way. In other words "by the book" may not work out

SET THE TIMING. Move the dist. RETARD (ccw on a B /RB) and move it slowly back advanced (CW on B/ RB) If you have points, move until the points open using a test lamp / ohmeter etc. If you have breakerless, move until the reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil.

YOU CAN CHECK timing with a light, cranking with the starter
=========================================

Carb and fuel. This is a real tossup. A new, unknown carb. I would look in the book for idle screws settings and maybe back them out another 1 turn You can usually fill most carbs using a syringe through the vent holes If there is any question as to the fuel system or pump, SAFELY rig a fuel can siphon from above through a hose.

Do as much checking as you can. You do NOT want to be grinding on the starter, or running at low RPM. You want the engine "up" in RPM at cam break in immediately. Keep and eye on oil and temp. FEEL THE FRONTS of the heads and watch temp. If you have the heater plumbed, watch the heater for heat output. Feel the hoses. Cold heater / cold hoses means you have an air trap in the coolant.

TIMING........You do NOT want retarded timing which will heat the engine. Keep the light hooked up and "total" time it with no vacuum advance. That is, while it's running, make sure it's advance up there 34 degrees or so. IF YOUR balancer is not marked, and you do not have a "dial up" light, then measure around the balancer, calculate degrees per inch and mark the thing, even temporarily

You can even ESTIMATE this. Say the timing tab is marked "you can read" before and after 10, which is a 20 degree spread. Just set the damper on 10, make a temporary mark under the opposite 10 onto the dampener. That's 20 degrees from TDC. Move the damper so that temp mark is under either TD or 10 and "figure" 15 degrees, so 20 + 15 is your 35 degrees. This is close enough that while the engine is running you can get a quick idea where it's "at." More rather than less at this point, there is no load on the engine.

================================

FEEL the heads and check oil and temp. Look for leaks, other problems. Follow the cam break in destructions.

 

[Moparsmitty]

DO NOT pour fuel down the carb if you value your life, your hair, your eyebrows, eyelashes, etc. etc. If the engine backfires, which is a very good possibility, it could send flaming fuel all over the place. It's always a good idea to have a competent friend standing by with an extinguisher whenever you start a carbureted engine the first time. Do all the rest of the stuff in 440roadrunners reply, take your time, and be careful.

 

[69a100]

There's a nice write up on that other site that gives you a great check list of things to do/check before the big dance. Good Luck
See here--->http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/motor/22.html

 

[Malicious]

Thanks guys. I only had a few hours available today so I decided to hold off until next weekend. Seems like doing it properly is going to take longer then I thought. I'd rather do it right than screw the cam.

Might do a bit more reading up to make sure I'm ready to tweak the carb and timing right off the bat.

 

[miller]

Yeah, you want that thing to fire off, nice and easy. Just means a little prep work to have things set right.

The bit on the fuel to the carb thing I mentioned...especially if the fuel system has been down for awhile...I usually do this. With fuel in the tank, but the lines are dry, pump dry, carb empty, easily I apply LOW air pressure to the tank fill tube. Only takes a few seconds of air pressure to force fuel through the lines to the pump. Then a few starter rotations, coil wire off (so no start), and check the carb squirters. Then you know for positive the carb is getting fuel the normal way.

Of course all the other stuff applies. And...hold yer mouth right!

 

[Garys1969RR]

It may take awhile for fuel to get to the carb from the tank . And if it has sat awhile some of the lines could be plugged. I just ran a fuel line from the pump to a gas can, and started it that way. Then your not heating up the starter trying to get fuel to the carb.

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Then after you get it running, shut it off and hook up the gas tank fuel line. The fuel still in the carb should let the engine run long enough to get the fuel from the tank flowing, provided the lines are clear.

 

[440roadrunner]

Fuel...........You can buy those red pumps at the parts stores, I think they are 15 -20 bucks, "rig" them to the fuel line and just suck the fuel right up there

These are both handy and a PITA all at the same time. Buy some short lengths of 'alternative' tubing / hose so you can adapt things up and down. These can be rigged to both "suck" and to push. You do need to squirt a bit of light oil into them when using........fuel or solvent "wipes out" the lube, and makes them "leak by"

 

[Malicious]

Thanks guys, in regards to the fuel, would it be worth while to just run a line from the fuel pump to a jerry can of fuel instead then?

10litres be enough to break it in? I think that's about 20pints.

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Sorry to be clear, this is on a restoration. So no fuel has touched any part of the fuel system so far, which is why I was considering the jerry.

 

[miller]

Thanks guys, in regards to the fuel, would it be worth while to just run a line from the fuel pump to a jerry can of fuel instead then?

Here in Texas, we have words for a rig like that (ones I won't say here).

Deal is...sooner, or later, you have to charge the dry fuel system, to make it work. Only takes a couple minutes.

Good luck on your start!

 

[Bigal75]

Make sure it starts right away and bring the rpm up asap for the cam.

 

[Malicious]

dont mind I'm an idiot!

 

[Malicious]

Well after seeing moparedtn's movie I thought bringing the engine to life would be a bit more of a dignified affair. Seems my coronet is far from that! She came to life breathing fire and brimstone!

Still not broken in, hoping to get some help. After making a few novice mistakes the engine is running and pretty strong it feels like. But I'm only about 5 minutes into the break in, I don't what to keep going until I have a good idea about how to fix up some of the problems.

Here's my issues:
Getting coolent into the engine! What's the best way to do this when you can't idle the engine?
I've left the cap off, it basically overflows straight away, I'm assuming it's from the air that's trapped trying to escape. Problem is this spills into the fan and sprays like rain in a gale force wind.

Second is she got too hot, and we had to cut it off. At this point it think it's from the coolant. However the headers did glow red hot.

When switching it off it dieseled for about 1-2 seconds and back fired before stopping. Any thoughts?

While I've done a lot of work on cars, this is my first carb and dizzy engine and first break in, so I am going to sound like a complete novice here and I am with this. I think my timing is at +15 (the tdc mark on the balancer is on 15 mark to the left of tdc with the timing light) this is at around 2500. Carb idle screws are set to 1.5 turns out.

Here's the engine details:
77ish 440 cc is pretty low about 8.6 from memory
750 vac sec carb
Whiplash cam
Edelbrock estreet heads
Rpm intake
Doug 452 headers
No name 'one wire' distributor and coil so no moparedtn's ecu and ballast resistor.

Appreciate all the help so far, the pressurized tank to push the fuel through was gold, anything you can offer here would be fantastic.

Cheers!

 

[miller]

Question...did you put any coolant in the block, before you buttoned things up? I always pour in a gallon of coolant into the water pump neck, before mounting the thermostat, and upper hose. That way, you know the block has something in it...just top off the block with water (if needed), before closing it up.

Suggest a half turn OUT on both carb mixture screws. Red exhaust is usually too lean...it can burn out your valves if run too long! Better too rich, than too lean, and can be adjusted back in, after break in.

Timing sounds off...double check it.

 

[440roadrunner]

There is NO NEED to argue with coolant in a Mopar. There ARE more modern engines where "that is" the case, but not with these.

ALL you need to do is disconnect the heater hose which communicates with the bottom of the thermostat. On a small block, that is the hose on the intake.

On a B/RB that is the outer fitting towards the rear of the engine. Simply disconnect that hos, and fill until you get coolant out that port. Reconnect the heater hose and continue to fill. Sometimes you can gently squeeze the top hose and "burp" it a little. let it set and recheck.

Set the heater controls for "full heat." As you run the engine feel the fronts of the heads and the heater hoses. Both hoses getting warm / hot indicates coolant flow, meaning "there is no airlock." A COLD heater means trouble!!!

Make CERTAIN you have the timing advanced enough. Set the timing as soon as you can, and you want "lots" to prevent over-heating. With a performance cam, you want at least 12-15 initial, maybe more, so long as it does not "hit" the starter. With the engine revved for break in you want at least 30 and probably "full" 34 degrees. Glowing headers means lean or retarded.

 

[Malicious]

Success, biggest issue I had was the vac advance on the distributor was fouling on the top heater hose. So I spun the oil drive gear around about 45degrees and reinstalled. That allowed me to get proper advance into the engine.

wound out the idle screw two turns in the end as well and removed the thermostat. All in all it ran well. I've got a weep from the passenger side rocker cover, rattling trans inspection plate cover and the exhaust seams to be leaking and every joint (and bloody loud!!) but the cam is broken in.

The header tube on the 7 cylinder is still running hot, the rest were fine. Any advice?

And it stumbled (slight diesel) again once switched off and had another blow back through the carb once it finally stopped. Not a full back fire but a define blow back.

Love some advice. Might give it a week before I hit it again. Pissed the neighbors off enough for the moment! Ha!

- - - Updated - - -

Success, biggest issue I had was the vac advance on the distributor was fouling on the top heater hose. So I spun the oil drive gear around about 45degrees and reinstalled. That allowed me to get proper advance into the engine.

wound out the idle screw two turns in the end as well and removed the thermostat. All in all it ran well. I've got a weep from the passenger side rocker cover, rattling trans inspection plate cover and the exhaust seams to be leaking and every joint (and bloody loud!!) but the cam is broken in.

The header tube on the 7 cylinder is still running hot, the rest were fine. Any advice?

And it stumbled (slight diesel) again once switched off and had another blow back through the carb once it finally stopped. Not a full back fire but a define blow back.

Love some advice. Might give it a week before I hit it again. Pissed the neighbors off enough for the moment! Ha!