FlowKooler or Milodon water pumps

Heating, Cooling & AC

  1. Houle #382

    Houle #382 Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering if anyone has purchased one of these water pumps and is one better than the other
     
  2. Ironbuilt

    Ironbuilt FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    I have a Flowkooler on my 63. Made a noticeable difference and combined with a aluminum radiator, it solved my overheating problems.

    flowkooler-1679_800x525.jpg
     
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    • FrnkNsteen

      FrnkNsteen FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      I put a Flowcooler pump on the 400 in my Barracuda, but I also got rid of the small cross-flow radiator with electric fan and replaced it with a 3 core Champion, correct shroud, high volume thermostat, and mechanical fan. Unfortunately, I did it last fall, so I didn't get a chance to drive it in hot weather.

      I can say the whole system works much better now. Before,... You couldn't see any evidence of the system working, it would just heat up and continue to get hotter unless you were cruising down the highway. Now, I can run it for an hour with no overheating issues. Temp comes up to about 180 degrees (with 180 thermostat), thermostat opens and temp drops back down until thermostat closes, then cycle repeats.

      Like I said though,... this was at about 70 degrees outside, so I haven't been able to test it in hotter weather. Looking forward to testing it out this spring/summer. Here's some pictures of what was in my car when I bought it, and what I have replaced it with.

      0918181650b.jpg 1105181617b.jpg
       
    • twecomm

      twecomm FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      When I first got my Charger, pulled the stock radiator and had it boiled out and re-furbed at a local rad shop. Also flushed out the block. Ran with a with stock water pump for many years, only cooling upgrade was to add a fan shroud. The shroud helped a bit, but always marginal cooling performance on extremely hot summer days. Two years ago, I put a Flowkooler on my 383, Made a big difference that could be seen right away on the temp gauge. Engine runs significantly cooler. I would recommend the Flowkooler.
       
    • bigmanjbmopar

      bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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      Wondering if this Flowkooler pump will work with the 440source housing? I am kind of stuck since I bought the passenger side outlet housing originally. These flowkoolers seem to solve the at idle in traffic overheating issues since they flow 100 times better due to the impeller design. Just hop the housing I have isn't the bad one with the small orifices.
       
    • bigmanjbmopar

      bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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      Just a word of research - the 440source passenger side outlet aluminum housing has the same holes as the factory pump I was finally able to compare them side by side. That said the drivers side outlet is smaller. however overall the housing to get if you can find a decent one is the 73-78 one if you are running passenger side outlet, these years have a bigger opening in the center looking down through the thermo hole and flow allowing better less restricted flow. thinking of just getting one from ebag.
       
    • khryslerkid

      khryslerkid FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      Useing stock 8 blade. "If it ain't broke..."

      20170520_144948.jpg
       
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      • bigmanjbmopar

        bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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        True that but if you have a heavy modded engine and you need a better cooling option then i guess that is considered broke and needs a fix lol
         
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        • RJRENTON

          RJRENTON FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Gentlemen,
          The pump that circulates the HIGHEST VOLUME without cavitation at the highest flowing PRESSURE for the average operating condition would be the best selection. In spite of what you have heard or have been told velocity (the faster the better) is the key to effective and efficient heat transfer in both the engine (heat gain) and radiator (heat loss). The radiator's effectiveness is directly attributable the number of fins per inch (air side), the higher the fin per inch count the better. The tubes only convey the coolant from the inlet to the outlet and only play a small part to the heat exchanger surface area. In addition, the specific heat characteristics of the coolant is an important consideration in the effectiveness of the system. Water has a specific heat characteristic of 1.0; additions will reduce this number but add the necessary corrosion inhibitors.
          The Evans Coolant supporters will argue their point as to why their system is best. BUT the laws of Thermodynamics applies regarding heat transfer characteristics of automotive cooling systems. Its very likely that your next door's neighbor's brother-in-law's cousin's best buddy's friend will have a different view point.
          BTW.....for my application, I use a Flowcooler pump driven at the standard crankshaft to pump sheave ratio with the 2906070 fan clutch, 7 blade fan, with a shroud and 2998956 radiator with 60/40% mix of Dexcool with a 16# cap with out over heating (185°F - 210°F) in all conditions (cruising Woodward Avenue Detroit Michigan on a 95° F day).
          Just my opinion of course.
          Bob Renton
           
        • bigmanjbmopar

          bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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          I don't run Evans anymore however the best part of Evans is the no pressure. My specific engine set up did not like its op temps at 210-220 which is where the Evans put it. However I did not know about Flowkooler at the time had I known I probably would have swapped then and would expected to see the op temps around 195 at max. who knows, I am not switching back yet its too expensive vs water and additives.
          I have my new flowkooler pump in hand and will be switching it out this weekend so we will see. we are still having 95+ temps here so it should be easy to tell if it helped in traffic or not. For coolant I am currently running 90% distilled water and Maddatives cool down additive. 210 is too high for my 440 I like to keep topped out at 195-200 I will be trying a different additive next summer.
           
        • RJRENTON

          RJRENTON FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Just plain water will likely provide the best performance but you should consider using a corrosion inhibitor, especially if you have aluminum heads or radiator. Cooldown additives are nothing more than than ionic surfactants (water wetting agents) that break down the surface tension of the coolant to promote (or advertise) reductions in temperatures by making water "wetter". But...where are you measuring the temperature? Up front just below the thermostat, which will provide the best AVERAGE temp or somewhere else?
          The idea of increasing system pressure is to raise the boiling point of the coolant. For every pound pressure increases the boiling point by 3°F. With a 50/50% mix of ethylene glycol and water and 16# system pressure the boiling point is increased to ~265° F.
          You mentioned that for your application that 210° F is too high....why? Carb fuel percolation or vapor lock issues? Hopefully its not one of the "they said issues" if you exceed 195° F your rear wheels fall off or something to that effect. Or are you concerned about possible head gasket failures?
          Sometimes my GTX will bump up to 220°F without any detrimental issues....but every application is different.
          Just my opinion of course.
          Bob Renton
           
        • bigmanjbmopar

          bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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          Im going to try Summit's version of VP racings coolant
           
        • Kern Dog

          Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          I have used both and it gets over 100 degrees here. I noticed no difference. They both worked well.
           
        • RJRENTON

          RJRENTON FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          KD,
          Out of curiosity, what were your results of using a "water wetter", like the b4 and after coolant temps using the material, also ambient air temps and how and where you were driving the car. The only true comparison is by quantifying your results. To paraphrase an expression..."enquiring minds want to know". Thanx.
          Bob Renton
           
        • Kern Dog

          Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Bob, I was referring to the two water pumps as written in the thread title. I had a Milodon with a RH dump WP housing and a 26" crossflow radiator. I changed to a conventional vertical tube radiator, 26" with a FlowKooler and a fan shroud. Oddly, it runs at the same temperature.
           
        • bigmanjbmopar

          bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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          Cooling is like mystery science theater....it all began when I stroked that engine to 500 ci lmao all downhill after that. Pretty soon we will just be like track guys and have a huge tank in the engine bay strictly for ice cubes and ten minutes of driving..... Honey why are all the ice trays empty? oh I need to drive to the store tonight lmao.

          Are we really going to sit here and say the only way to get our cars to stay cool is to go back to all stock everything? Isn't there a recipe somewhere for all of this that is dumbed down for me wtf over?

          Here is the Summit Ice water stuff 50/50 pre mix with no antifreeze and they said it works great with purple ice. Great more $$ https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-943000/questionsanswers/?page=2

          If I get lucky I'll have time Sunday to put all this on just to find out it made no difference and my wallet is $200 lighter thanks Kern its all your fault!
           
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          • Kern Dog

            Kern Dog FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            What if we looked at the cars as they are being restored and take that into account?
            An engine that once was a 440 is now a 493. Take the percentage of cubic inch increase and add that to the size or efficiency of the cooling system.
             
          • bigmanjbmopar

            bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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            Your on to something professor......what's the correct equation then?
             
          • RJRENTON

            RJRENTON FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Gentlemen,
            Its not a function of simply displacement, but a compilation of several factors, in my opinion. The first being how much more reject heat the cooling system must handle. Second, the compression ratio of the engine (usually higher compression ratio equates to more Btu's rejected). Third, what is the total capacity of the cooling system. Fourth, what is the flowing capacity of the water pump at what RPM (as GPM of the centrifugal pumps varies with the impeller diameter and its speed). And fifth, the heat exchanger's total surface area and the temperature of the cooling air flowing thru the radiator (heat exchanger). There is an expression that states the greater the temperature difference between the two cooling media the more heat is exchanged. Usually, the best operating point is a average of the minimum and maximum conditions at a stated circulating quantity (GPM) and velocity in Ft/sec. The Specific heat of the coolant also influences the heat transfer capabilities. The laws of Thermodynamics applies. Just my opinion of course.
            Bob Renton
             
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            • bigmanjbmopar

              bigmanjbmopar Newb with a view

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              Well lets see...got the Flowkooler installed, ran some of the Sumitt coolant and Got out this morning with 70° temps. It went well ok? Got up to temp pretty fast 180-190 took it out on the freeway for about 5 miles at 65 then pulled off and ran down city streets light to light for about 6 miles. Now i use both factory guage and a mech one. The factory gauge showed just short of the right middle mark. Hard to desctibe but the guage has a cold / off mark than a section were i would assume it is its operating range. About a 1/4 way left to right starts it then at the 3/4 mark it ends the range. So the temps stayed just short of the 3/4 mark which would be within operating range? Now the mech guage showed about 185-210 most of the time it was at the 190 mark. Seemed hot for the temps outside. Is it me or should my temps be 180 when its 70° outside? Repeated the same event when it was 85 out and basically the same thing. Took out some of the Sumitt coolant and put in some zerex G-05 and ran it in the garage for 15 min. Temps sat at the 3/4 mark or 190° the whole time. Interesting note while at a light i could see the gauge drop a little. Then would go back up cruising. There was a time when i would run at 180 on cool days.

              Not sure if i should be concerned? Could be a tune issue too. Just seem to remember running 180 all the time unless it was over 90° outside then that was a different story.

              Thinking i may have found a balance finaly not sure.

              What is the science here?

              My set up is this
              160° Mildon high flow stat ( interesting note Mildon high flow stats have a small notch or hole built into them for air relief i guess)
              The Flowkooler pump
              440source passenger side outlet aluminum housing same port size as stock
              26" aluminum ECP radiator 2 row 1" tubes
              16 lb cap
              Twin 12" electric fans with shroud pulling 3500 cfm
              Timing at 10° inital 35 total
              9.6:1 compression ratio.

              One thing to note is the fans cool things down pretry fast. However i noticed they are pulling in super hot air into the engine bay so much so im not conviced my mech gauge is reading accurately. I noticed the temp gun reading at the stat housing would read one temp with the fans running but blocking the hot air with something gave a bit of a cooler reading. Note to self lazor heat gun reads hot air too.

              The only thing i have changed since i felt it used to run at 180 all the time on cool days was the heads and carb.


              Edited:
              On another side note reading temps with the temp gun outside of the radiator with the gauges in the car reading the temps noted above, checking fins from top to bottom. When reading the top fins read anywhwre from 165-172 middle was about 140-154 bottom was 99- 118. Standing pretty close to the front of the car about 2 feet from the radiator at the most.
               
              Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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