Fresh 440 installation!

[Isaiah Estrada]

Got the 440 installed yesterday!

Mocked up radiator core support / fan setup.

I had a few questions regarding the transmission and whether or not I need to pull the motor back out. I seated the torque converter in until I heard 2 clicks. It spun freely with no issues! Could see the tail shaft spinning even. I bolted the trans up to the motor and we installed it.

I did not apply grease to the “pilot” of the torque converter that goes into the crank. I had no idea people did this. Should I pull the trans and grease that pilot?

Also, when I pulled the TC back to try and bolt it to the flex plate, there was about an 1/8 inch gap between the two… I was able to bolt it on but I’m not sure if this is incorrect? Figured I’d ask the pros!

 

[Wietse]

Engine looking good, still some other parts to be installed though!
I see no point pulling it again to apply grease to the converter pilot, once it is in it's in.
Converter shell rotates together with the crank so there is no friction as such that requires lubrication.

Yes, there should be about 1/8" of clearance between the converter and flex plate when the converter is pushed into the transmission all the way.
The small clearance will be taken up when bolts are tightened, it is there to ensure the converter hub is not bottoming out inside the transmission oil pump housing.

 

[Isaiah Estrada]

Engine looking good, still some other parts to be installed though!
I see no point pulling it again to apply grease to the converter pilot, once it is in it's in.
Converter shell rotates together with the crank so there is no friction as such that requires lubrication.

Yes, there should be about 1/8" of clearance between the converter and flex plate when the converter is pushed into the transmission all the way.
The small clearance will be taken up when bolts are tightened, it is there to ensure the converter hub is not bottoming out inside the transmission oil pump housing.

Thank you! This is what I needed to hear. Everything seems to be fine down there then. Also makes sense on greasing the pilot. Never did put 2 and 2 together, they are always going to be spinning together at the same time! This is my very first time doing any of this. Was a bit scary but I'm happy I got everything in where it should be. Alas, my car is a C Body but our motors are all one in the same and I'm happy to have the tech knowledge here on FBBO!

 

[Isaiah Estrada]

Got this 26" cold case radiator in 2020, barely unwrapped it a few days ago to mock up the core support.

It all looks pretty! Mocked up support with brackets for extra reinforcement during the break in. The clutch is realll close to the radiator. A bit close for my liking. I did make my own modified engine mounts to reinforce the motor but, I don't want to take any chances. I'm only 21 so I had to save a long time for all of this stuff LOL. Gotta make sure it stays put and stays safe...

My current situation. Granted, my core support was leaning forward here and there was about a 3/4 inch of space between the clutch and the fins - but my gut is telling me to change it while I can.

This little fella here ought to do the trick! Makes me feel safer, and will optimize my cooling fan setup. Here in hot Southern California (northern tip of Southern California where I'm at) traffic can get bad and days can get hot. I plan on driving this old girl as much as I can, so I need it to be reliable and happy!

It's come a LONG ways

Not a high dollar or professional "restoration" by any means - BUT it's the best I can do and I think it's coming out alright ;)

 

[Wietse]

Not a high dollar or professional "restoration" by any means - BUT it's the best I can do and I think it's coming out alright ;)

It doesn’t matter how you do it, as long as it is done the way you want it to become and enjoy it.
Respect to anyone who is willing to spend time and money to save these classic pieces of motor history.

Recently there was someone here who trashed his brand new radiator due to a sloppy fan clutch.
Be very aware and keep a safe distance of the radiator. Closer is better for cooling, but a shroud helps.
Personally i use a flex fan with a fixed spacer. This also avoids any drama’s with the clutch type. Many people here use the clutch type and all is good. Just make sure it is a good brand and inspect it very carefully, that it is new doesn’t mean it is good.

 

[69ChargerR/TSE]

Got this 26" cold case radiator in 2020, barely unwrapped it a few days ago to mock up the core support.

View attachment 1347252

View attachment 1347255

View attachment 1347256

It all looks pretty! Mocked up support with brackets for extra reinforcement during the break in. The clutch is realll close to the radiator. A bit close for my liking. I did make my own modified engine mounts to reinforce the motor but, I don't want to take any chances. I'm only 21 so I had to save a long time for all of this stuff LOL. Gotta make sure it stays put and stays safe...

View attachment 1347258

My current situation. Granted, my core support was leaning forward here and there was about a 3/4 inch of space between the clutch and the fins - but my gut is telling me to change it while I can.

View attachment 1347259

This little fella here ought to do the trick! Makes me feel safer, and will optimize my cooling fan setup. Here in hot Southern California (northern tip of Southern California where I'm at) traffic can get bad and days can get hot. I plan on driving this old girl as much as I can, so I need it to be reliable and happy!

It's come a LONG ways

View attachment 1347260

Not a high dollar or professional "restoration" by any means - BUT it's the best I can do and I think it's coming out alright ;)

I use the shorter fan clutch, with the OE fan. No cooling issues.
I highly recommend using Evans Waterless coolant, it boils at 370 degrees, and is good to -40F. It saved my engine, when my belt broke and my engine temp hit 270 when I was finally able to get off the highway and stopped. Replaced the belt, and the temp went back to normal. No fluid loss.

 

[beanhead]

Not sure how handy you are with a welder, but I didn't like the big (about 5/8") gap my cold-case had beteween the top tank's weld line and core support, so I zipped off the radiator's front mounting brackets and TiG'd them back on in such a way to where the gap was about 1/8"...less air leakage and some needed extra breathing room between the clutch and radiator.
Good luck on the project!

 

[khryslerkid]

Also makes sense on greasing the pilot. Never did put 2 and 2 together, they are always going to be spinning together at the same time!

The key word is "flex" plate. The flex plate flexes in and out with the converter. That's why you heard a little grease is recommended on the end where it goes into the crank. Not a big thing if you didn't do this. Not worth pulling everything apart.

You stated there was an 1/8" between the converter and the flex plate. Was this before you pulled it up and bolted it or did you have to use bolts to pull it together?

 

[Isaiah Estrada]

The key word is "flex" plate. The flex plate flexes in and out with the converter. That's why you heard a little grease is recommended on the end where it goes into the crank. Not a big thing if you didn't do this. Not worth pulling everything apart.

You stated there was an 1/8" between the converter and the flex plate. Was this before you pulled it up and bolted it or did you have to use bolts to pull it together?

I had to use the bolts to pull it together. I clearly remember seating it properly in the trans. I heard 2 distinct clicks and it sat far into the bell housing. It spun freely and easily.

The trans was about a foot away from the motor on a pallet. A friend and I lifter the trans up and onto the pins on the back of the block and made sure the TC didn’t slide forward (which it didn’t.)

After, we installed the motor into the car. When I went under with a creeper, we had the car jacked up (pretty high) in the front and the rear wheels chocked.

I couldn’t pull the TC foreword no matter how hard I tried. But I could spin it freely and very easily still. I was able to bolt the flex plate on with my TC bolts pretty easily. Was able to turn the crank with no issues.

I’m still not sure if it was a trick of the eye, or either the flex plate was flexing out to the TC as I tightened or the TC actually pulled out. It was my first time trying this ever! Now I know there’s a possibility that the pilot didn’t seat correctly into the crank. Or, with the front end of the car jacked up, it was just hard to pull the TC back to the flex plate. I’m a little worried about this; as I’m hoping I don’t have to pull my engine and trans all over again!

 

[Isaiah Estrada]

I use the shorter fan clutch, with the OE fan. No cooling issues.
I highly recommend using Evans Waterless coolant, it boils at 370 degrees, and is good to -40F. It saved my engine, when my belt broke and my engine temp hit 270 when I was finally able to get off the highway and stopped. Replaced the belt, and the temp went back to normal. No fluid loss.

Thanks for that good tip!

Not sure how handy you are with a welder, but I didn't like the big (about 5/8") gap my cold-case had beteween the top tank's weld line and core support, so I zipped off the radiator's front mounting brackets and TiG'd them back on in such a way to where the gap was about 1/8"...less air leakage and some needed extra breathing room between the clutch and radiator.
Good luck on the project!

Many thanks! I’m hoping the low profile clutch will be the key to having better clearance with this setup. Aside from that, it seems solid! In fact, the new one I had on had a much longer shaft than my OE unit. I have a feeling the new Hayden clutch will be closer to what the car had originally. Unfortunately the clutch that was original to the car leaked fluid.

 

[Wietse]

I’m still not sure if it was a trick of the eye, or either the flex plate was flexing out to the TC as I tightened or the TC actually pulled out. It was my first time trying this ever! Now I know there’s a possibility that the pilot didn’t seat correctly into the crank. Or, with the front end of the car jacked up, it was just hard to pull the TC back to the flex plate. I’m a little worried about this; as I’m hoping I don’t have to pull my engine and trans all over again!

Loosen the converter bolts again, once they are loosened the converter should still be sitting flush with the flex plate, then you are able to push the converter back inside the transmission again and again have the same 1/8" clearance.
If there is any sort of tension on the flex plate it will be caused by the pilot not able to seat inside the crank.
This is just a slide fit, some paint of the converter will scrape right off the seat.

 

[Isaiah Estrada]

Loosen the converter bolts again, once they are loosened the converter should still be sitting flush with the flex plate, then you are able to push the converter back inside the transmission again and again have the same 1/8" clearance.
If there is any sort of tension on the flex plate it will be caused by the pilot not able to seat inside the crank.
This is just a slide fit, some paint of the converter will scrape right off the seat.

So if the gap is still there, it's because the pilot hasn't set in the crank properly? That is what I am hoping is the case (well, I'm hoping there is no issue at all!) If that is the case however, I assume that with a type of prybar or even a piece of wood - I may be able to pry it up and into the crank?

 

[Wietse]

If you loosen the bolts and the converter "springs" away from the flex plate you are in trouble.
But if after loosening the 4 bolts and the converter still sits nicely agains the flex plate you are all good.
In the last case you should be able to push the converter back in the transmission by hand, should not require any "excessive" force.
The converter should slide right back against the flex plate after that.
That converter pilot will not be a tight fit, unless there is a ton of rust and/or paint.
When I replaced mine new converter slipped right in without removing paint, i only cleaned up the crank pilot hole with some scotch brite and did not grease anything.

 

[Isaiah Estrada]

If you loosen the bolts and the converter "springs" away from the flex plate you are in trouble.
But if after loosening the 4 bolts and the converter still sits nicely agains the flex plate you are all good.
In the last case you should be able to push the converter back in the transmission by hand, should not require any "excessive" force.
The converter should slide right back against the flex plate after that.
That converter pilot will not be a tight fit, unless there is a ton of rust and/or paint.
When I replaced mine new converter slipped right in without removing paint, i only cleaned up the crank pilot hole with some scotch brite and did not grease anything.

Noted! I'm thinking I will not need to pull the motor or trans then. Both are completely rebuilt / brand new at the moment. I am thinking however, paint MAY be an issue. Really doubtful though. I guess I will see tonight when I'm able to get some work done! Hoping for the best.