Freshly rebuilt 727 help

[Rebelrouser]

Hey everyone. I have finally got my 440 running and it sure does sound mean with the whiplash cam. I installed the driveshaft today and tried driving the car out of my garage. It was very slow at moving forward or backwards. It almost felt as if the brakes were engaged. I tried shifting through all gears and tried moving in 1st and second. It was the very same. It felt like it was trying to drag the wheels. I gave the car a rev in drive and it moved but then gave a small shudder so I shut the car down. The linkage is set correctly as I can place the car in neutral and move the car around by hand and in park it won't budge.
I dropped the oil pan and it was spotless. Checked both band adjustments and they were backed off the correct amount of turns.
The transmission was built by myself with all new steels, frictions, bands, seals and bushings provided by John Cope. I also installed a tf2 kit which I had one in my 904 which I loved. The torque converter is a B&M 3000 stall which I traded for with my buddy. It came from his 440 and it ran perfectly. He was installing his numbers matching 383 and using a stock converter so I didnt turn my nose up at it. I have a deep pan from John Cope including a spacer with a rubber O ring on the VB side and a gasket on the filter side and the correct amount of oil according to the dipstick after cycling through the gears and letting it warm up.
Has anyone got any ideas as to what the issue could be? I'm really drawing blanks here.

 

[Rebelrouser]

Hey everyone. I have finally got my 440 running and it sure does sound mean with the whiplash cam. I installed the driveshaft today and tried driving the car out of my garage. It was very slow at moving forward or backwards. It almost felt as if the brakes were engaged. I tried shifting through all gears and tried moving in 1st and second. It was the very same. It felt like it was trying to drag the wheels. I gave the car a rev in drive and it moved but then gave a small shudder so I shut the car down. The linkage is set correctly as I can place the car in neutral and move the car around by hand and in park it won't budge.
I dropped the oil pan and it was spotless. Checked both band adjustments and they were backed off the correct amount of turns.
The transmission was built by myself with all new steels, frictions, bands, seals and bushings provided by John Cope. I also installed a tf2 kit which I had one in my 904 which I loved. The torque converter is a B&M 3000 stall which I traded for with my buddy. It came from his 440 and it ran perfectly. He was installing his numbers matching 383 and using a stock converter so I didnt turn my nose up at it. I have a deep pan from John Cope including a spacer with a rubber O ring on the VB side and a gasket on the filter side and the correct amount of oil according to the dipstick after cycling through the gears and letting it warm up.
Has anyone got any ideas as to what the issue could be? I'm really drawing blanks here.

Time to get a pressure gauge on it. I like the TF2 kits they work well, but one time I had an issue with a valvebody that had another brand shift kit installed in it and I did a TF2 over the top of it and did not recognize the first modifications and it acted just like you describe. I just got a virgin valvebody and swapped the TF2 parts into it and it worked fine. Pressure gauge should show pressure where they are not supposed to be, if that is the issue.

 

[snakeoil24]

Is your sprag in backwards

 

[Fran Blacker]

The torque converter was a small issue to install. My buddy's car which the converter was installed in before had a 3mm plate used between the bellhousing and motor to achieve the correct amount of pull forward to the flex plate. It ran perfectly in his car so when I did a swap with him for parts he gave me the spacer and I installed it also as when the torque converter was installed in the trans there wasn't enough back spacing for the torque converter but the spacer plate gave correct amount.
I forgot to mention that when I pulled the trans cooler line off the rad there was very little fluid that came out. Sounds like a pumping issue due to either the ears broken off which I hope didn't happen or else the pump is sucking air somewhere and causing cavitation.

I think your problem is right here. Did you use your buddies flexplate? Wonder if it was backward on your buddies car. When you start spacing things that normally shouldn't need it something is wrong.

 

[nigel]

Got the flexplate from him also. His combo of 450 and 727 was built by a mopat racer/builder in the UK and he installed the spacer plate to give correct pull forward clearance. The sprag isn't in backwards either so im completely out of ideas. A buddy of mine has a 727 sitting for a number of years so I might take his stock VB and try it. If that doesn't work I'll change the TC and see how that goes. If the VB swap works I'll order one from John Cope

 

[turbine68rt]

In drive it seems as if the brakes are applied but Put it into 1 low and it pulls no problem.

Since the difference between drive and low 1 is that the L/R band is applied in manual low, I'd be suspecting that the overrunning clutch isn't holding. During assembly did you verify that the drum locks in one direction and spins freely in the opposite direction?

 

[nigel]

I did try that. The sprag engaged in one direction and turned freely in the other. I might pull it during the week and start from scratch

 

[Fran Blacker]

Nigel note test for proper torque convertor engagement. If torque convertor should be 1/4" to 3/8" away from flexplate. If flexplate is to close without spacers between block and trans bellhousing there are only a few things that could be wrong. One flexplate on backward or two wrong flexplate or three flexplate is bent. Go to this website and download a service manual Service Manuals – MyMopar

 

[snakeoil24]

Did you install set screw on Sprague and also strike a notch

 

[nigel]

I never removed the outer race of the sprag. I was going to get a bolt in sprag if I removed the stock one. I have a VB here now I just got off my buddy. Took it out of a trans he has had sitting for years and he bought it off a guy that also had it sitting for years. I removed the VB from his trans and straight away I noticed it has the restriction plug in the front clutch orifice so it's looking like this VB also has a transgo kit installed

 

[nigel]

Nigel note test for proper torque convertor engagement. If torque convertor should be 1/4" to 3/8" away from flexplate. If flexplate is to close without spacers between block and trans bellhousing there are only a few things that could be wrong. One flexplate on backward or two wrong flexplate or three flexplate is bent. Go to this website and download a service manual Service Manuals – MyMoparView attachment 1523263View attachment 1523262

I did that procedure and it showed that there was only half the required clearance. The spacer between the block and bellhousing brought it to the correct spacing. I never heard of putting a spacer between a block and bellhousing until I saw my friends car that was built in the UK by a mopat specialist. Its Monday morning and I've a full day's work to do but I'm going to swap the VB later to see if that does anything. If that fails I'll pull the trans and change the flexplate and torque converter. I'll open the trans to check and make sure there is no damage done before I reinstall it. Ill check the sprag to make sure nothing has gone wrong with it. If it still fails after that then I'll be fresh out of ideas

 

[Rebelrouser]

I did that procedure and it showed that there was only half the required clearance. The spacer between the block and bellhousing brought it to the correct spacing. I never heard of putting a spacer between a block and bellhousing until I saw my friends car that was built in the UK by a mopat specialist. Its Monday morning and I've a full day's work to do but I'm going to swap the VB later to see if that does anything. If that fails I'll pull the trans and change the flexplate and torque converter. I'll open the trans to check and make sure there is no damage done before I reinstall it. Ill check the sprag to make sure nothing has gone wrong with it. If it still fails after that then I'll be fresh out of ideas

Mopars have the shortest distance in the bellhousing for converter length. Many race cars have a mid plate, and you have the converter built to account for it, a longer pump drive installed. I have gotten several performance converters that had incorrect pump drive heights. If pump drive is too long it can break the pump drive lugs.

 

[Fran Blacker]

I did that procedure and it showed that there was only half the required clearance. The spacer between the block and bellhousing brought it to the correct spacing. I never heard of putting a spacer between a block and bellhousing until I saw my friends car that was built in the UK by a mopat specialist. Its Monday morning and I've a full day's work to do but I'm going to swap the VB later to see if that does anything. If that fails I'll pull the trans and change the flexplate and torque converter. I'll open the trans to check and make sure there is no damage done before I reinstall it. Ill check the sprag to make sure nothing has gone wrong with it. If it still fails after that then I'll be fresh out of ideas

Please post what you find.

 

[nigel]

I'm putting my tail between my legs and I'm going to just pull the bad boy to see what the situation is. I just landed at my car now and I'm sorry I didn't bring some beer from work because I feel like I'm going to need it

 

[nigel]

So I just got done draining the oil and I'm not liking the results. Everything in the oil catch is non magnetic. I have a funny feeling my sprag has bit the dust

 

[icetech]

So I just got done draining the oil and I'm not liking the results. Everything in the oil catch is non magnetic. I have a funny feeling my sprag has bit the dust

View attachment 1523627

that sucks.. but a call to A&A and you can fix the weak link in that trans and never worry again... (Trying for a silver lining)

 

[nigel]

I'll either give John or A&A a shout. Hopefully it's just the sprag spun and not crack the case. I was going to buy a bolt in sprag but money became an issue. Turns out its costing me more money now. Hopefully I'll have the trans out soon and have it apart.

 

[nigel]

So I just got the trans apart and I look at the sprag and nothing. It looks and functions perfectly. I checked everything as I was coming along through the transmission and everything looks fine. I cannot see where the metal came from. I'm even more confused now. I was expecting to see the sprag torn up into pieces and the rollers falling around the place

 

[icetech]

So I just got the trans apart and I look at the sprag and nothing. It looks and functions perfectly. I checked everything as I was coming along through the transmission and everything looks fine. I cannot see where the metal came from. I'm even more confused now. I was expecting to see the sprag torn up into pieces and the rollers falling around the place

View attachment 1523656

did you take the pump apart?

 

[icetech]

And the clutch packs?