Here we go. One last time...

[oldbee]

Fran who cares? It's time to get mad now! is the way I look at it- time to show that beautiful car who's boss.

 

[moparedtn]

Don't quit! Get the sabre saw out cut the support open. Try another distributor. A guy I knew had an overheating problem I loaned him a distributor it was ok. Hope somebody else chimes in.

Yep, that's part of the plan I'm putting together here.
The hole is going to be enlarged for a 26" radiator. Might not be factory pretty when I'm done, but I don't give a rip.

Can you tell I'm pi$$ed?

I have looked back at your pictures of the fan and shroud, and it appears that the fan might be too far out of the shroud. Displaced airflow through radiator core is totally dependent on the depth of fan blade in shroud.
If the fan blade is too far in you are creating a wind tunnel straight at the motor and not having enough fan blade to direct hot air to pavement(which is the only place open enough for air flow)
An ideal amount on older cars with solid fans was 60% of fan blade in shroud to pull air through and 40% outside to direct hot air to pavement.
Not saying this is what's happening, but certainly worth looking into.

Well, the shroud is a cobbled affair for sure, but the fan is half in, half out - I got that much done anyways.

Is the clutch on the fan any good?

New unit. Not sure on any real method to test it, but there is resistance in it when I turn it by hand. Are they supposed to pretty much lock up when hot?

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, master plan time....one more time again:

1. Timing will be set to get the desired total of 34BTDC at around 2600rpm. I will have the vacuum disconnected and whatever that leaves me with for an initial setting is what it will be, probably around 15BTDC if I remember past experience with these Mopar electronic distributors (I have two - a new rebuilt A1/Cordone unit and the Mopar performance one as well).
If that makes the car a tad jittery, so be it.
I'll have to go through finding TDC again, even though the motor came with a stock harmonic balancer - who knows how accurate it is, though?
Only one way to find out...

2. Mildon high flow water pump is ordered, as is their high flow 160 thermostat.

3. Opening up the radiator support from current 22" to 26" so I can run a proper radiator. The one I have is new, brass and supposedly a 26" 3 core - but it is of dubious origins, so it's going bye bye.

4. Radiator will be a monster, absolute beast of a critter.
OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS HERE!!
How about a big aluminum jobber, made for factory mounting, with at least 2 rows of 1.25" tubes?

5. A proper direct fit shroud will be installed on said radiator.
I already have the factory 7 blade fan and viscous drive on the engine.

No holds barred here. If I'm doing this, I'm going whole hog.
What say ye?

 

[NJRR]

Ok, master plan time....one more time again:

1. Timing will be set to get the desired total of 34BTDC at around 2600rpm. I will have the vacuum disconnected and whatever that leaves me with for an initial setting is what it will be, probably around 15BTDC if I remember past experience with these Mopar electronic distributors (I have two - a new rebuilt A1/Cordone unit and the Mopar performance one as well).
If that makes the car a tad jittery, so be it.
I'll have to go through finding TDC again, even though the motor came with a stock harmonic balancer - who knows how accurate it is, though?
Only one way to find out...

2. Mildon high flow water pump is ordered, as is their high flow 160 thermostat.

3. Opening up the radiator support from current 22" to 26" so I can run a proper radiator. The one I have is new, brass and supposedly a 26" 3 core - but it is of dubious origins, so it's going bye bye.

4. Radiator will be a monster, absolute beast of a critter.
OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS HERE!!
How about a big aluminum jobber, made for factory mounting, with at least 2 rows of 1.25" tubes?

5. A proper direct fit shroud will be installed on said radiator.
I already have the factory 7 blade fan and viscous drive on the engine.

No holds barred here. If I'm doing this, I'm going whole hog.
What say ye?

Glad to see you're not letting it beat you !! Go for it !!!!

 

[moparjohnny]

Glad to see you're not letting it beat you !! Go for it !!!!

ed, there are also new coolants out there that are more pricey but do a better job of cooling some are waterless that most here know about and works very well,google waterless radiator coolant,and that old harmonic balancer can cause you problems as well i would replace it with a new one,real mopar guys do not quit, they conquer there problems,you are a real mopar guy so conquer.put you a holley on that car.

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, it's all torn back down.
Nobody has any suggestions on radiators and/or shrouds?

 

[Fran Blacker]

I have no advice for radiator, only used stock or re-cored. Ed it's Sunday, weather here is getting iffy. I should be working on my car but lazy boy here is on the computer.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Ok, it's all torn back down.
Nobody has any suggestions on radiators and/or shrouds?

Over heating problems are a bitch ! There are so many contributing factors , some, many people would not think about. Yesterday, I had a Chevelle guy asked me about his heating problem. At first look , everything appeared OK. He had no idea what thermostat ( if it had one) , what core thickness, if any of the rubber " air direction " flaps were missing, ignition timing, only had 4 blade fan, no mechanic experience, on and on , and he wanted the one thing that was his problem !
I think in some cases, aluminum radiators, electric fans, special coolant, hi flow water pumps, super duper fan blades, etc. etc. etc. is a waste of money . And the problem could be as simple as a wrong size water pump pulley.
Wish I could help Ed, no easy answer.........................MO

 

[moparedtn]

Over heating problems are a bitch ! There are so many contributing factors , some, many people would not think about. Yesterday, I had a Chevelle guy asked me about his heating problem. At first look , everything appeared OK. He had no idea what thermostat ( if it had one) , what core thickness, if any of the rubber " air direction " flaps were missing, ignition timing, only had 4 blade fan, no mechanic experience, on and on , and he wanted the one thing that was his problem !
I think in some cases, aluminum radiators, electric fans, special coolant, hi flow water pumps, super duper fan blades, etc. etc. etc. is a waste of money . And the problem could be as simple as a wrong size water pump pulley.
Wish I could help Ed, no easy answer.........................MO

Well, this time around, it gets ALL the fixes.
I want this thing to struggle to make it to 170 when I'm done. Serious.
Truth is, the car has been too hot even before with the last couple engines as well.

With this engine, one thing I've already been able to tell about it is that it has quite a bit more punch than the others did - and more HP means more heat.
It makes sense that an already marginal cooling system would be pushed over the edge as a result.

So....
One last time, I'll do the cooling system up from scratch "the right way" and no, I'm not shooting for "good enough" or "adequate" here.
I want friggin overkill.

 

[moparedtn]

I have no advice for radiator, only used stock or re-cored. Ed it's Sunday, weather here is getting iffy. I should be working on my car but lazy boy here is on the computer.

I put in a healthy day even before I got into the garage - lots of property work needed done, followed by a typical 4 hour session on the tractor.
Since I was already zapped, soaked in sweat and nasty, I headed straight into the garage and drained and stripped all of the cooling system right off the car, one fell swoop.
Legs a wobblin', then I allowed myself to get in the a/c and take a shower.
This ain't over. I'll rest when I'm...
oy, I gotta stop with the bad death puns. Starting to even bug myself with that crap.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Well, this time around, it gets ALL the fixes.
I want this thing to struggle to make it to 170 when I'm done. Serious.
Truth is, the car has been too hot even before with the last couple engines as well.

With this engine, one thing I've already been able to tell about it is that it has quite a bit more punch than the others did - and more HP means more heat.
It makes sense that an already marginal cooling system would be pushed over the edge as a result.

So....
One last time, I'll do the cooling system up from scratch "the right way" and no, I'm not shooting for "good enough" or "adequate" here.
I want friggin overkill.

OK, so start a new thread , specifically for your heating problem. I know you will get LOTS of suggestions , and that you are good at reporting what works, and what doesn't . This could be a valuable thread of information for us that over-heat problems is a mystery.
BTW my radiator is a 22" wide brass/copper for a 69 Roadrunner and that fits my 1964 with 318 poly, core support. What were 26" wide radiators from the factory, used on? .................................MO

 

[oldbee]

Ed if you start a new thread be rdy for a lot of ideas,But I bet more than a few will say go back to what Ma Mopar went with. Mine is out to a 26" rad,clutch&7-blade and shroud and it does work.Play with t-stat setting and usually ur done with it.Also you have a fresh engine that will run hotter till broke in.Good luck.Jeff

 

[moparedtn]

Ok gents, as you wish:
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/cooling-issues-and-a-weird-question.132114/

Ed

 

[fixitfirstime]

I can use the 1/2" outlet that's plugged off to the right of the hole in the pic by using a bushing for the temp sensor - but then, what do I do about the heater hose adapter?
Did later model 440's actually use an adapter that necked down to 1/4" NPT?

I am in the middle of the install right now and thought a picture with nothing else in the way might help. The tall heater hose fitting is farther forward than the one next to the bushed temp sensor . Oem versions of the short one had a strainer in case a chunk of casting flash got loose I guess.

 

[moparedtn]

I am in the middle of the install right now and thought a picture with nothing else in the way might help. The tall heater hose fitting is farther forward than the one next to the bushed temp sensor . Oem versions of the short one had a strainer in case a chunk of casting flash got loose I guess.

View attachment 562998

Hey, I appreciate the response, thanks.
I got all this sorted out back then (see the thread I linked to in the post directly before yours).
Long adventure to get the critter figured out. Lots of trial and error, ended by the combination of good advice from Professor Ehrenberg himself and our own Colorado Dave!

 

[Richard Cranium]

I am in the middle of the install right now and thought a picture with nothing else in the way might help. The tall heater hose fitting is farther forward than the one next to the bushed temp sensor . Oem versions of the short one had a strainer in case a chunk of casting flash got loose I guess.

View attachment 562998

First I've heard of that. Got any pictures of said strainer?

 

[oldbee]

First I've heard of that. Got any pictures of said strainer?

Straining the brain cells now, looked like window screen at very bottom of threads.