High volume or pressure oil pump

[71Charger]

I’m looking to run 6 qt pan on my 400/512 and was wondering if high volume pump would work without sucking the pan dry.

I will be using fully grooved main bearings.

or do I run high pressure instead.

Mancini racing has a kit that includes pan, gaskets, windage tray and std pump with 3/8 or 1/2 pickup for $300.

also has anyone used the extra capacity wix oil filter that 440 source sells?

 

[Aron Gleason]

I've had my high volume high pressure melling oil pump with windage tray on a 440 for 30 years. Oil pressure is 70 lbs hot, but I also run a 7 quart pan. As far as the wix filter. I use the 51515 filter.

 

[440Coronet500]

You can run a high volume pump with a 6qt pan and windage tray without a problem. 440'

 

[ruffcut]

WIX 51515

 

[71Charger]

Anyone use the extra capacity filter from 440 source?

http://store.440source.com/Wix-Extra-Capacity-Oil-Filter/productinfo/138-1005/

 

[dvw]

The high volume oil pump will not flow any more oil at the same relief pressure. It will flow more under the pressure where the relief is still closed. Example 70psi @6000 rpm with either pump will result in the same flow. At idle if the standard pump only held 20psi and the HV pump holds 40 psi there will be greater flow until the set relief pressure is met. Pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. So with the proper relief spring there is no way the pan will be sucked dry.
Doug

 

[F4R/T]

Mr. Six pack recommended on my 440 a stock pump is fine, high volume and it will have a better chance at starving out on the big end...No issues here with a stock replacement.

 

[zyzzyx]

I'm no expert, but the rotors on the Melling Hi Volume pump are 1.200 tall. The standard
pump rotors are 1.000 tall. The six quart pan is a great way to get some extra capacity for
not alot of Moola! I say that if you don't race, you don't need the big pump but the pan is
good insurance. If you plan on taking the engine to 6500 or so, the HI Volume pump will
probably tie more oil up and run you dry. Rule of thumb: one quart of oil per 1000 RPM.
And the 1/2" pickup will pull more oil out of the pan faster also. If you don't need it, don't
use it!

 

[Nate S]

The fully grooved mains will suck up a lot more oil volume without much, or any, benefit. You probably want the high volume pump. If you’ll be going to high RPMs a bigger pan is probably a good idea.

 

[71Charger]

6500 rpm will be the limit with the combo I’m putting together. I’ll be running 1/2 pickup with engine oil passages opened up on passenger side.

I’ll have to do some mods to the aluminum Procomp heads as oil seems to drain back to the bottom of motor slower than I’d like.

 

[zyzzyx]

So, you say you are going to use the 1/2" pickup? I assume you will be enlarging the hole in the block that
feeds the pump and re-tapping it for 1/2" pipe? I did mine last year and made an angle plate to use with a
Mag Base drill. You can look up the post if it'll help.

 

[RJRENTON]

I've had my high volume high pressure melling oil pump with windage tray on a 440 for 30 years. Oil pressure is 70 lbs hot, but I also run a 7 quart pan. As far as the wix filter. I use the 51515 filter.

I agree completely. I'm using a high volume pump with the spring that comes with it. I have full groove main bearings at 0.0025" clearance, Clevite 77 tri-metal torqued to FSM specs + 15 #-ft with ARP bolts. The rod bearings are same Clevite 77 at 0.0025" with ARP hardware. I use 10W-30 Mobil One oil plus 1/2 pint of ZDDP with the 6 qt pan and windage tray and ~ 1 gt additional oil. Pressure cold @ 2000 RPM = 75 psi; pressure hot @ 3000 RPM = 70 psi. Been that way for 30 years without issue. I, too, use the Wix 51515 filter. I DO NOT RACE the car....only an occaisional stop light contest or two..... others may have differing thoughts.
BOB RENTON

 

[RJRENTON]

Anyone use the extra capacity filter from 440 source?

http://store.440source.com/Wix-Extra-Capacity-Oil-Filter/productinfo/138-1005/

View attachment 1239862

Reading the verbage of the Wix advertising......
"Other than a deep sump oil pan, this is the only way to increase the capacity of your oil system, and it's kept right at the supply side of the oil pump, just where it's needed most".

The wording is incorrect......the filter is on the discharge or oil pump outlet. The wording indicates is the filter is on the inlet of the pump. The larger filter (more internal surface area) will result LESS pressure drop or pressure loss thru the filter INCREASING the volume available to the engine for a given RPM (assuming the same oil viscosity). Boyle's Law applies...... Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON

 

[zyzzyx]

A friend of mine raced a four cylinder toyota hemi engind on a circle track. We put a stainless screen filter on it and it worked great! One thing about paper filters is that if they get any water in the oil,
They stop flowing. Can't have that if you're on the track.

 

[Nate S]

A friend of mine raced a four cylinder toyota hemi engind on a circle track. We put a stainless screen filter on it and it worked great! One thing about paper filters is that if they get any water in the oil,
They stop flowing. Can't have that if you're on the track.

Interesting how we agonize over tiny differences in filters yet generations had none at all. Heck volkswagens didn’t get them ever in the beetle. Engines I’ve seen without them seemed to just wear down quicker, nothing too exciting. The screen isn’t a bad thing in the right application.

 

[RJRENTON]

A friend of mine raced a four cylinder toyota hemi engind on a circle track. We put a stainless screen filter on it and it worked great! One thing about paper filters is that if they get any water in the oil,
They stop flowing. Can't have that if you're on the track.

As noted later, the stainless steel screen filter (is stainless steel better or what alloy, and screen sieve size) used, size or area of the screen used? Using nothing but the pump's pick up tube would be just as effective. Perhaps the engine owner was interested in keeping large pieces of disintegrating engine bearings out of the oil pump? As noted, the VW 4 cyl air cooled boxer engine did not have any oil filtration and only 2 qts of oil and they seemed to run forever..... BTW....filters are rated at a micron rating at specified flow rate and presdure. One micron = 0.0000039" diameter. Just an additional talking points....
BOB RENTON

 

[cdr]

The high volume oil pump will not flow any more oil at the same relief pressure. It will flow more under the pressure where the relief is still closed. Example 70psi @6000 rpm with either pump will result in the same flow. At idle if the standard pump only held 20psi and the HV pump holds 40 psi there will be greater flow until the set relief pressure is met. Pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. So with the proper relief spring there is no way the pan will be sucked dry.
Doug

THIS ^^^^^ a HV pump also comes with a high pressure spring, & a HV pump will not suck the pan dry anymore than a HP pump

 

[dvw]

You can swap springs. I've trimmed my spring in the racecar. Bushed lifter bores tighten things up. The spring has had 11//2 coils cut off. It actually rattles in the pump.
Doug