How Toyota Dethroned GM as the Number One Automaker in the United States

[BeepBeepRR]

I bought a 2003 S10 to flip. This apparently was a bad move. I installed a new engine because the old one had a rod hanging out of the block. It just so happened to be one of the flex fuel trucks. I paid dearly for a used engine. 900.00 was the only one I could find. Then a 600.00 in tank flex fuel pump. All the work I put into the truck plus the cash I sold it just to get my money back. I got 1700 dollars for the truck. Nobody wanted an S10.

But then I used that 1700.00 to buy a 2003 Toyota Tacoma that had front damage. I bought 2 fenders a grill, bumper, one headlight and some rattle cans. Had less than 2500 in the truck. Sold it to the first person that came to look at it for 5500.00 cash. Learned a lesson that day never buy a chevy and expect a come up. Truth be told I should have kept this Toyota. It was a damn good running and driving truck.

 

[Billccm]

I read recently GM squeaked into the number one slot again. It could be whomever has the best supply chain for the sales lead?

 

[DeltaV]

I would like to see the ranking after removing lease sales and fleet sales.

Anyway...

These were the 10 top-selling car brands, models in 2022

 

[guy gadbois]

Toyota fortunately if you own one
& are Pro-American/America 1st, made here
fewer products/parts are used that come from outside the US
than the big 3, either/all of Ford, Govt. Motors, Stellantis/CDRJ
(yes Toyota mothership/company is in Japan, product sold here is built & produced here)
It's more 'American-made', than all the 'American-owned' auto companies...

Of all the Japanese owned companies,
I'd & have own/ed a Toyota over any of the others...

Had great luck with them...

I haven't owned one for 23 years now,
since I bought my 99 Dakota SLT 4x4 V8, "love that lil' truck"
I sold my 97 Buick LeSabre Limited/loaded, I inherited from my Granddad
12k miles, & sold my 85 Toyota SR5 4x4 22R (EFI 1st year) on it's 2nd engine
(1st 389k miles) trans & rear end more than 500,000 miles in total,
both my girls/twins drove thru school & I used when I had to leave it
in extended stay Airport parking lots or haul garbage to the dumps etc...
A great lil' truck, I owned for 14 years, sold it for $3,500 (could have got more)
I combined the 2 sells
& I bought my Dakota 1,900 miles 'Owners dealer demo'/new 7/70 warranty
& I also currently own a 02 F-350 4x4 PS 5 speed Diesel Dually, since new too
I wouldn't recommend to anyone...
yes it serves 'it's purpose' as a tow rig, but it's costly to own...

(I owned a 98 Dakota R/T prior, bought new in Nov. 97, great truck too)

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Toyota,
if I couldn't find a Dodge/Ram or Jeep to my likings...

My girls all love 4x4s, 2 of the 3 own Toyota Tacomas 4x4s
their husbands all drive Rams...

Tojo is about as pro America as the Ayatollah Khomeini.
Oh, I guess they're 'proAmerican' in that they are very pro - taking - our - money - and - technology - and- jobs - and- laughing - all - the - way - the - bank - American I reckon... They LOVE us for all that.
I get a kick out of these people with their tojos who are SO proud of their 'made here' tojo trucks; the factory even supplied them stickers to shout it to the world. Well, yes, they are assembled here...but thats not the whole story...
See, tojo has different 'divisions'; those of you who have one might see 'Gulf States tojo' or similar somewhere on your vehicle or paperwork if you bought it new. These are separate 'companies' from the home office. Those companies are -on paper- independent from tojo inc. Those companies started as 'importers', and have 'evolved'. "They" decide where they want to build a facility and then go to the relevant local government and give them the song and dance about economic impact, tax base etc etc. Local government then gives the farm away to them. [for example, the San Antonio truck plant, as I remember, was 7 years no taxes, free water bill and basically free land...and thats w/o getting into how they totally screwed over their employees and ended up...oops, fixin to get 'too political' ,even tho this whole topic is political...] ANYWAY, so the 'separate company' puts in the plant and gets to going. Well. isnt that special. See, the problem is that 'Gulf States tojo' or whomever then 'buys' the parts and machinery and such from the mother company, and they dont get too good of a 'deal' on the pieces...and after they pay all the employees, their benefits - before they go back on their word- and even after reaping all the sweet deals that the local govt has given them...whaddaya know... they havent made a 'profit', so there goes all that tax base infusion. Hmmmm.... Oh, the home office has made plenty of profit, but the paper company that is liable for US taxes hasnt.
Yes, a few local people and suppliers are making a living - which is good - but all the promises made to local govt to get all the concessions are just hot air. Bend over round eye.
Of course, tojo is not alone in this - they learned it from the most evil japanese company - h***a - who pioneered the concept with their first plant in Ohio. But of course, its actually the fault of the US and local government - guess you cant blame japan inc for taking advantage of the opportunity - including the disparity in import duties [havent checked in a few years, but it usta be about 3 to 10% for asian stuff coming here and 100% for American automotive stuff going that way...]
But there I go getting political again - cant seem to help myself. Remember what Aristotle said...

where did that line thru the last 3, now 4 , lines of text come from?

 

[GetX'd]

For the last 40 years I’ve driven many models of cars. Most not my own - you see for 35 of those years I drove company cars. It had always been at least in my industry (insurance) and I believe most others at least if an American company they would only purchase American fleet vehicles. So I drove a lot of different mid-level ford and GM products. Even a few Chryslers. 65k and you turned them in for a new one. Why do you think that was?

In 1983 in the first few years of my career and first marriage I needed 2 cars because of the wife. I discovered Honda via my new brother in law - further a Honda Cressida (I think). I’d never even driven a foreign car before. I had to drive all the way up from Mpls to the head waters of the Mississippi, Bemidji, MN near Canada to get one. Included bells and whistles, quality and reliability stats and the obvious drive and feel quality of the vehicle - not to mention value for the price sold me in 1/10th of a heart beat. As stated I had a company car so my drive time in it wasn’t excessive but that car stayed in my family of siblings going from one to the next for 5 drivers that drove the wheels off it. All the way to the eventual boneyard. It was a great car and sold me on Japanese car quality v American. After I don’t even remember how many American company cars I will buy only Japanese and more specifically Toyota or Honda products. When I shop I look at pretty much everything in the price point and model level available Including American. I don’t even bother with the German rides. They are appealing in style and options but not so in reliability. The Japs and soon the Koreans have gotten where they are by simply building a better product for a reasonable price - Period. The Koreans have and are learning from the Japs. They were slow to start but are now predictably moving quickly. My personal opinion is American vehicles have been junk for decades in nearly every aspect except trucks. Highly unlikely I’d ever buy another. For years now I’ve pretty much been a Lexus advocate/owner and I’m liking the Genesis product from Hyundai. My wife wants a Lamborghini SUV but thats for a whole nother discussion....

 

[440 4 speed]

I bought a 2003 S10 to flip. This apparently was a bad move. I installed a new engine because the old one had a rod hanging out of the block. It just so happened to be one of the flex fuel trucks. I paid dearly for a used engine. 900.00 was the only one I could find. Then a 600.00 in tank flex fuel pump. All the work I put into the truck plus the cash I sold it just to get my money back. I got 1700 dollars for the truck. Nobody wanted an S10.

But then I used that 1700.00 to buy a 2003 Toyota Tacoma that had front damage. I bought 2 fenders a grill, bumper, one headlight and some rattle cans. Had less than 2500 in the truck. Sold it to the first person that came to look at it for 5500.00 cash. Learned a lesson that day never buy a chevy and expect a come up. Truth be told I should have kept this Toyota. It was a damn good running and driving truck.

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[68BabyBlue]

For the last 40 years I’ve driven many models of cars. Most not my own - you see for 35 of those years I drove company cars. It had always been at least in my industry (insurance) and I believe most others at least if an American company they would only purchase American fleet vehicles. So I drove a lot of different mid-level ford and GM products. Even a few Chryslers. 65k and you turned them in for a new one. Why do you think that was?

In 1983 in the first few years of my career and first marriage I needed 2 cars because of the wife. I discovered Honda via my new brother in law - further a Honda Cressida (I think). I’d never even driven a foreign car before. I had to drive all the way up from Mpls to the head waters of the Mississippi, Bemidji, MN near Canada to get one. Included bells and whistles, quality and reliability stats and the obvious drive and feel quality of the vehicle - not to mention value for the price sold me in 1/10th of a heart beat. As stated I had a company car so my drive time in it wasn’t excessive but that car stayed in my family of siblings going from one to the next for 5 drivers that drove the wheels off it. All the way to the eventual boneyard. It was a great car and sold me on Japanese car quality v American. After I don’t even remember how many American company cars I will buy only Japanese and more specifically Toyota or Honda products. When I shop I look at pretty much everything in the price point and model level available Including American. I don’t even bother with the German rides. They are appealing in style and options but not so in reliability. The Japs and soon the Koreans have gotten where they are by simply building a better product for a reasonable price - Period. The Koreans have and are learning from the Japs. They were slow to start but are now predictably moving quickly. My personal opinion is American vehicles have been junk for decades in nearly every aspect except trucks. Highly unlikely I’d ever buy another. For years now I’ve pretty much been a Lexus advocate/owner and I’m liking the Genesis product from Hyundai. My wife wants a Lamborghini SUV but thats for a whole nother discussion....

I had a similar experience. I didn't have company cars, but had a reimbursement deal. The execs above me, with the exception of the CEO, drove mid-priced American made, so that's what I did. But I flew a lot back then, and drove a lot of rental vehicles. The company had deals with Budget and National, and they had a mixed fleet of Toyota, GM, Ford, and Chrysler. So I drove them all, and fought the idea of driving Toyota products for years. I finally caved in 1998, after years of comparing the initial quality of the rentals, and maintenance costs (virtually none) of the Tercel that my wife drove during that era. I owned two VWs prior to my corporate tour, and they both broke me on upkeep.

The low cost of ownership of the foreign competition enabled me to indulge the GTX itch over the years. On the other hand, I found overseas heavy trucks were junk (Volvo, Freightliner-Daimler Benz), compared to USA Paccer (Peterbilt, Kenworth), and Mack prior to Volvo acquiring them. My 2000 Peterbilt turned 1.7 million dependable miles before I retired. It's still on the road today. Sad to see the Big Three give the car market to the foreign competition, but they did.

 

[YY1]

I will put my 2000 Dakota up against any Japanese small tuck of the same era.

Likewise for my previous 2003 P/T.

...and for my 2015 Renegade.

The key is era.

I agree (as posted earlier) that the US brands **** the bed in the 1980's after losing some initial market share due to being caught without economy cars in the 70's and then being slow to respond.

However, by the 2000's they were back on their game.

Unfortunately that stigma persists and is tough to shake.

I'm a "car guy" as well as a "Mopar guy" and I take every opportunity to drive whatever I am able to if the occasion arises.

I've driven many foreign brands starting at age 15 in 1983 and continuing to last month when I asked if I could drive an acquaintance's subaru crosstrek. That's the fifth subaru I've driven including a vintage brat and an xt turbo.

I've actually driven many more nissans (and datsuns), toyotas and hondas.Mazdas and isuzus too. Including full sized toyota and nissan trucks.

If I was forced to be a Japanese car guy, I could possibly be a subaru guy.....but only if I was forced.

 

[Photon440]

Reading his books, Bob Lutz (the guy who gave us the Viper) spoke of quality control after he was working at GM after Chrysler. He gathered all the heads of different departments - sheet metal, assembly guys, interior etc. and compared their cars to the competition. He wanted to know why they couldn't match what the imports were doing. The car he used for comparison as a superior car was a Hyundai Sonata.

However, he also noted that in the truck department, American trucks were better than the competition.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

I will put my 2000 Dakota up against any Japanese small tuck of the same era.

Likewise for my previous 2003 P/T.

...and for my 2015 Renegade.

The key is era.

I agree (as posted earlier) that the US brands **** the bed in the 1980's after losing some initial market share due to being caught without economy cars in the 70's and then being slow to respond.

However, by the 2000's they were back on their game.

Unfortunately that stigma persists and is tough to shake.

I'm a "car guy" as well as a "Mopar guy" and I take every opportunity to drive whatever I am able to if the occasion arises.

I've driven many foreign brands starting at age 15 in 1983 and continuing to last month when I asked if I could drive an acquaintance's subaru crosstrek. That's the fifth subaru I've driven including a vintage brat and an xt turbo.

I've actually driven many more nissans (and datsuns), toyotas and hondas.Mazdas and isuzus too. Including full sized toyota and nissan trucks.

If I was forced to be a Japanese car guy, I could possibly be a subaru guy.....but only if I was forced.

Last year I think... In 2001 they put the 4.7 into them ... Junk engine. As for the 5.9 5.2 and the 3.9 So if it has one of those engines pretty solid trucks. If its the 4.7 time bomb feel sorry for you and the resale.

 

[YY1]

5.9

Not crazy about those .7 family engines either.

I had a company Dakota ext cab 3.7 that was pretty good.
Way more power than a 3.9 and still going at 97,000 when I left, with basically zero maintenance.

 

[Budnicks]

I'm not pro 'Tojo'
I'm pro-facts, pro quality...
Prior to my Dakota's (had several including the one I still have)
I had very good service & longevity, from my Dodges/Rams
out of my bought new 'Japenese' made,
Toyota SR5 22R 4x4s *1984 1st,
it had about 380k miles, when I gave it to SIL (he's going thru it)
& bought new a *1985 - 1st year of EFI & solid/live front axle still
it's still on the road today, has well over 500k+ miles on it,
on it's second engine & drivetrain, it's gone to my youngest,
she still drives it today, she loves that truck...

I haven't owned anything from Japan-owned corps... since

I had ordered a new 95 & then a 98 Power Ram 2500 4x4
Cummins 5.9 12v Turbo Diesel, 1) auto & 1) 5 speed
both/each with over 350k miles, 70k+ on each was towing,
were my main work vehicles...

But since,
buying my 99 Dodge Dakota SLT 4x4, my truck is from the Dearborn Mi plant,
(most of them were/are from Mexico)
Ford/s, the 02 F350 4x4 PS Diesel Dually 6 speed, (gone now)
was ordered new from the Kentucky plant, (also some Mexico)
the 22 Maveric/Lariat AWD, got for my dad, he had to have it
(traded the 02 F350 in)
it wasn't my 1st choice, it's gone now (it was from Mexico)
I didn't have it, but after about 2 months, then I got rid of it,
for something better, a bit higher off the ground, a real 4x4
(what I told him to try/drive 1st )
for the Jeep Gladiator Rubicon Launch Limited edition, I have today
it is from Toledo Ohio

GM #s of sales, is one of the largest corporations in the world too
& not just cars, I won't/I don't deal with any of them now...

I think VW Group/Germany or it was, the biggest player in the automotive business
I just looked it up
now #2) 10,382,384 'cars' sold
Toyota/Japan (several plants in the USA)
has surpassed them by about 80k vehicles sold
Now Toyo's are #1) 10,466,051 'cars' sold
Hyundai / Kia both Korean #3) 7,218,391 'cars' sold
GM #4) 6,856,880 'cars' sold

The huge sales #s & size of corporations, doesn't mean 'quality of product'...
(GM is a perfect example of 'being big' doesn't mean quailty)

Now #5) largest is Stellantis Dutch/French - PSA from Amsterdam,
FCA (Fiat/Chrysler), DS automotive, Exor, more than a dozen brands
including Jeep Dodge Chrysler Ram Renault Fiat

the big 3 are China, the United States & Japan respectively
when all categories are compiled, passenger cars, big trucks, Motorhomes
SUVs & 'pickups' too

don't get me wrong
I'm about as Pro-Made in America as they come
I actually try/attempt to buy Made in America, whenever possible
it's surprisingly hard too, & it's a damn shame...
too bad more people/Americans didn't do the same,
maybe we wouldn't be in the economic fix we are in today...
I use 'my wallet to speak', not just lip service...

American made,
or made in the USA, the corporations are American,
(more global market supplied) well 'sort of'
some of them aren't even majority American-owned now
FCA (Italian/Fiat) now Renault/Stellantis PSA (Dutch/French)

(Parts & much of the assembly & labor force, what was the Big 3
= mostly assembled supplied from Mexico & Canada, South Korea
some/much of the stuff from China/Taiwan-Chinese Typai too,
especially chips and electronics, & castings)

'In fact' in most cases, #'s of sales & size of corporations
it often means the exact opposite...
IMHFO they get 'too damn big' for their own britches
Mass-produced/cheap crap, pricepoint shoppers buying crap...
Now no attention to detail or customer service/customer input...

the bix box stores are perfect examples of it

How many returns or recalls or warranty claims (?)
that tells the true story of quality,
I'd bet it can be traced back to country of origin too

GM is huge in China now, (Barry/Joe's gave away the farm deal)
that should tell you something right there...

I'm on my 112th or 113th car/truck now
most were American brands,
most like a 1/3rd+
were MoPars Dodge Plymouth, muscle cars era 68-71
another nearly 1/3rd
were 4x4 Dodge Power Wagons, Ramcharger & Plymouth (Traiduster)
Pontiac Chevy (a couple Chevy Pickups too) Olds & even Buick muscle cars
a few Fords (a couple Ford pickups too) were thrown in the mix,
a more than a handful of CJ Jeeps/Willys too
a couple of old Datsun pickups, a few Toyota 4x4s
& Lisa loved her 84 & 89 Turbo Supra/s, we bought used...

I'm an equal opportunity gear head, my heart is with MoPar
but have strayed occasionally
I like many things with an engine & wheels

 

[DeltaV]

Bob Lutz. I like that guy.

 

[Billccm]

I am a home team kind of guy. Cannot bring myself to buy a large purchase from a foreign manufacturer. I'm coming to the end of the road here as Detroit has abandoned automobiles and I am not a SUV kind of guy.
I certainly do not judge the foreign car buyer as I believe in free markets and capitalism. I will admit in a way GM has been Toyota's best salesman.
My wife really wants a Maverick, so when these enter the used car market I'll look for a low mileage used one for her. I just bought a 2006 Charger cream puff with 60k miles to replace my 14 year Grand Marquis. At my age that is probably the end of my car purchases and I'll let the world switch to EV SUVs.

 

[440 4 speed]

Toyota!
We got our first 1971 Corolla 1600 stick form my wife’s brother in 1974. Very good little car. Gave it to our son, about 86. A little later a woman ran a stop sign and he broadsided her, end of that.
1986 my wife bought her brother’s 1985 Supra , stick car fun to drive. Never winter driven, sold it about 2007, 13000k on it. No problems with it. Never drove it over 130k.
1992 Runner stick 3l bought in December 1991, hauled C bodies, 23.5 Sylvan OFF SHORE, and did many other things. Put one clutch in it. Sold it in 2013, 384000k. Cost us 345.00 per month including purchase, repairs, not insurance. Had it for 21 years. It hauled the drag car many miles.
Bought a 2006 4 Runner in December 2012, 4l auto has been very dependable.
A good friend bought two Terecel’s ( sp) for his daughter’s many years ago. Said he couldn’t buy a Toyota because they lasted too long and he liked change. He did have a 74 Corolla wagon and a Toyota chassid Motor home. Went across Canada and back in that in 2002.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

As a beater run around car a Toyota is a good car for that. I had a Ford Explorer which was the 4.0 XLT model and it was a decent vehicle. Only problem was an alternator went out when I was out of town. Had to do the parking lot repair. But it was reliable. Most of the Chevy stuff we used at work had high miles and more transmissions and engines than I care to recollect. We had a first year Astrovan which I loved driving. That thing would smoke the tires.. Every one we had after that was junk. I think we had 4 Astros, 3 Savannas one C20 van and one other Ford van. That thing sucked more than any other. Fixed a hose leak started spraying out at another place. Fix that and guess what? You guessed it leaked somewhere else. Went through the entire system replacing hoses, radiator and water pump just chasing leaks... Good stuff there.

 

[64fury74charger]

Over the years I have had cars and trucks from Mopar, Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, and even Mazda and Mitsubishi among others.

The 1st car I actually bought was a 63 Fury 2 dr post, slant 6 and pb trans, manual steering and brake from original owners. Just turned 99k and nice white repaint. He bought a New Plymouth station wagon. I paid $100.00 for it. Drove the wheels off that car, then passed twice to brothers and she went well over 400k with regular maintenance and water pumps, radiators and minor repairs.
I had a 79 Honda Accord, 5 spd, 350k when I gave it to my son. Regular timing belts and valve adjustments. 85 Toyota Camry 4 cyl, 5 spd, same with timing belt and water pump every 60k, over 400k when I sold it and ran like a top.

I had numerous Pintos and the 2.3 ohc motor was very durable if one takes care of it. Ford, Dodge and Chebby trucks, Dodge and Ford win hands down. Had a 95 Camry again 4 cyl, automatic and it ran like a Swiss watch. Mazdza pick up and a Mitsubishi pickup, both were dependable and economical.

My current daily driver is a 2017 Camry 4 cyl automatic just over 60k. I am leaving lots of stuff out here so I don’t run out of paper, America’s car companies are always going to be working at lower levels of quality because that’s the way it has been for several decades and they seem to be ok with that. Just my opinion and experience and that’s all.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I'm proud to say I have never owned any Non american vehicle except a 1300 Kawasaki Motorcycle. Really don't care if they are better or worse. I have driven way over a million miles in mostly Mopars. I can't remember any of them making me walk more than a couple times. Once because I ran out of gas and another time hydroplaning in a downpour and crashing in the ditch. (I consider them my fault more than the vehicle letting me down). Probably a few more that have slipped my mind but I try to do the maintenance to prevent problems. Maybe I have just been lucky but my 78 Dodge truck provided me with over 500K miles and a 99 Chrysler LHS with over 300K mostly trouble free miles, I never felt the need to look elsewhere. I have restified 3 Mopar vintage cars and none have let me down. I'm sure there are lemons in breed but IMO Mopar engineers have been more consistent in building vehicles to take abuse than any others. Just for instance, pick up a Muncie 4 speed transmission and throw it up on the bench, Then grab an A833 and do the same. You will see what I mean.

 

[Slap Stick]

That KZ 1300 was made in Nebraska.

 

[Sixpactogo]

That KZ 1300 was made in Nebraska.

Maybe so but when the Master cylinder took a dump, I waited about a month for a replacement from guess where? It wasn't Nebraska.