john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
What is this about shimming a starter? Why would I have to go through that nightmare, and how exactly is this done and why?
I give up. I'm done.
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john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
One of these starters from Powermaster have 3.4 hp. I think the stock starter has about 1.9 hp. That might help, if it is getting the power that it needs from the battery cable, which I cannot imagine why it wouldn't. I have done every modification myself so I know what has been done and how. It is not like my setup is monkey rigged up.
bigmanjbmopar
Newb with a view
When in doubt start at the last know place were it was running good a reverse what you did to get back to that point! Like some one else has already mentioned, Sometimes it is the only way to start and yes we have all had to do it at some point with something.
Revhendo
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Just for shits and giggles, set your intitial timing to 4btdc and see how it does starting wise.
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
No, I am saying that after I had made those changes I don't remember this being a problem. I drove the car enough times, and for long trips as far as 100 miles from San Diego to Orange. If I would have been having a problem like this back when this car used to be my only car I would have known it. This freakin car was my daily driver from 1998 until 2008 when I bought my Monte Carlo. I made the modifications in about 2006. When I say I barely drove it I mean I was frequently out to sea and deployed all of the time so I was not driving it every single day. But I drove it enough after those modifications to have been able to know if it ever had a problem like this and I was not ever having any problem like what it is doing right now. I literally cannot drive the car now because if I have to turn it off for any reason it may not want to start again for a long time. Next time I have to get gas I will run it over to the gas station right away before it has time to run for even 10 minutes just so I can feel pretty confident I can start and leave the gas station. This has never been a problem before.
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
I actually tried that. That is when I discovered that it had nothing to do with timing. I forgot to mention in this thread that it has nothing to do with timing. In an earlier thread I mentioned how I disconnected the coil wire and it still did not spin any faster. This is when Swt5ltr recommended replacing the factory mini starter with a factory stock starter based on his recent plight with a factory mini starter. Well, that may have made the situation about 5% better, but the end result is the same. Starter still won't crank when it gets hot.
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
6 more options left till I change hobbies.
1. Call Mark/hope to identify problem areas with wiring
2. Run some tests with a volt meter/fix problems from number 1
3. Look into possibility of shimming starter
4. Relocate two ten inch fans so they actually blow through radiator
5. Install more powerful starter
6. Buy another shroud kit and 3600 cfm electric fan
7. Sell car
1. Call Mark/hope to identify problem areas with wiring
2. Run some tests with a volt meter/fix problems from number 1
3. Look into possibility of shimming starter
4. Relocate two ten inch fans so they actually blow through radiator
5. Install more powerful starter
6. Buy another shroud kit and 3600 cfm electric fan
7. Sell car
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
5 more options left till I change hobbies.
1. Call Mark/hope to identify problem areas with wiring
2. Run some tests with a volt meter/fix problems from number 1
4. Relocate two ten inch fans so they actually blow through radiator
5. Install more powerful starter
6. Buy another shroud kit and 3600 cfm electric fan
7. Sell car
1. Call Mark/hope to identify problem areas with wiring
2. Run some tests with a volt meter/fix problems from number 1
4. Relocate two ten inch fans so they actually blow through radiator
5. Install more powerful starter
6. Buy another shroud kit and 3600 cfm electric fan
7. Sell car
Jim's Maxie
Well-Known Member
You missed one. Keep dumping money into a money pit because you are trying to re engineer stuff that worked !!.:confused5:
Capsule
Member
Just another idea: I had similar problems with my 440 not starting after a long drive. I thought it was because of the heat too that my starter wouldn't crank. But it turned out it was the voltage regulator that was roasted and the battery was being seriously overcharged and getting way too hot. With a new voltage regulator in the car I have no problems cranking the engine when hot.
I really hope you don't give up on your Mopar!
Capsule
I really hope you don't give up on your Mopar!
Capsule
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
Jim I am sorry to say but you are an idiot. Go to a different website like Moparts where trolls such as yourself thrive. You probably do not even have a car. You and Don at 4 seconds flat would probably make good friends since he was rude enough to actually cuss at me on the phone because his product was defective and I didn't want to buy another one.
Anyway, for the mature and polite people. I just got off the phone with Mark at MAD after an hour long conversation mostly about starters. He confirmed that all of my grounds and the way I installed the battery in the trunk is perfect. He says I can test voltage drop at the battery and if it is around 10-11.5 the battery is good. Considering the battery is brand new I think this test will turn out okay. He also recommended testing voltage loss between the battery and the starter. A one voltage drop is expected and anything more indicates a problem with the cable or one of the connections. This is totally unlikely because I know the quality of the 1/0 guage cable I am running. Plus, if it was cable related then there would be a problem whether the car was hot or cold. Mark says the only likely possibility is that the starter is bad. He knows that rebuilt starters can be scrambled up and I could possibly have a starter with internal components which were designed for a slant six starter. And that when companies rebuild starters they do not replace critical components if they work without a load, but once under load or heat they fail to work properly. He has worked at places that rebuild starters and alternators. His recommendation is to buy a high quality Powermaster starter with a permanent magnet motor such as the one I mentioned earlier, and also recommends planetary gear reduction if possible. And also to remove the wrap around the heat shield because while it may prolong heat transferring into the starter, it also keeps the heat stuck inside the starter. He only recommends wrapping the nearby header tubes or using a metal plate type shield which blocks heat, yet allows for air to circulate around the starter.
So I will run the car until it gets hot, and then perform these tests. Once the car passes the tests, I will order a Powermaster starter and possibly a heat shield if one is available. While I have the headers off I will also reposition the fans to make them of actual good use.
I am feeling pretty confident after talking to Mark that at least I know all my grounds and everything with how the battery is installed are perfect. And that only a weak battery or faulty starter could be causing this problem. Anyway, once I am finished reengineering my components all of which are better than stock, I will let all of you know who was right. Jimmie "Bad Butt" or all the helpful car enthusiast.
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john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
That is interesting. What kind of test can I perform on the VR? I have a new electronic VR. But remember, the car went for a 10 minute cruise around the block and had a hard time cranking. It was the good people here that gave me some new ideas, so I will exhaust these new possibilities first. But if I can't get this fixed soon I am done with this car because I don't know what else to try. I am not keeping a car if it will not start right.
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
I posted pics of the relocation kit under one of my earlier threads. There is really nothing to see.
bigmanjbmopar
Newb with a view
If I remember right guys say the stock style chrome electronic box is the best. I use all msd 6al with no VR or ballast resistor with a mech advance dstrib no vac advance.
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
After having two boxes fail from Don at 4 seconds flat, I have gone to the chrome box. I had an orange box on the car before Don's box and it lasted eight years, tens of thousands of miles, including three trips across the entire U.S from coast to coast and I never had a single part fail. I would still look into the VR as a problem, although unlikely. Perhaps I can put a volt meter on the battery and see if it is receiving more than 12 volts. My new alternator puts out 14 v at idle. However, the battery is not hot. I recently disconnected the positive terminal from the battery after a drive and nothing was hot and there is no corrosion or anything unusual.
Montclaire
Well-Known Member
I don't even know where to start with this, a proper response would take pages. Normally I would give a little info on the delta T principle and some diagnosis suggestions, but I don't think that will get us anywhere.
I really like how someone, trying to help you, asked for pictures and you told them to go find one of your other threads. Not even a link. lol
I really like how someone, trying to help you, asked for pictures and you told them to go find one of your other threads. Not even a link. lol
Montclaire
Well-Known Member
I think I found the problem...
"Well Rev point me back to the basics. I pretty much thought I had all the basics already."
"I am not building any brackets"
"I don't know what the heck radiator it is. All I know is it is big, aluminum, and light."
"It has run hot ever since the 540 hp 440 mod"
"I have not taken the heat wrap off of the starter. I am not messing with that."
"I am not ignoring your thougths if don't answer to them. It is that none of those ideas sound plausible."
"There is nothing wrong with the cooling parts I have selected. "
"What is this about shimming a starter? Why would I have to go through that nightmare?"
"The electric fans I installed sit away from the radiator a little bit and the air they blow mostly just bounces off the radiator. So they are not going to help very much....It is not like my setup is monkey rigged up. "
"You and Don at 4 seconds flat would probably make good friends since he was rude enough to actually cuss at me on the phone because his product was defective and I didn't want to buy another one."
"Anyway, once I am finished reengineering my components all of which are better than stock, I will let all of you know who was right."
"I posted pics of the relocation kit under one of my earlier threads. There is really nothing to see. "
Please give up. Buy a honda.
"Well Rev point me back to the basics. I pretty much thought I had all the basics already."
"I am not building any brackets"
"I don't know what the heck radiator it is. All I know is it is big, aluminum, and light."
"It has run hot ever since the 540 hp 440 mod"
"I have not taken the heat wrap off of the starter. I am not messing with that."
"I am not ignoring your thougths if don't answer to them. It is that none of those ideas sound plausible."
"There is nothing wrong with the cooling parts I have selected. "
"What is this about shimming a starter? Why would I have to go through that nightmare?"
"The electric fans I installed sit away from the radiator a little bit and the air they blow mostly just bounces off the radiator. So they are not going to help very much....It is not like my setup is monkey rigged up. "
"You and Don at 4 seconds flat would probably make good friends since he was rude enough to actually cuss at me on the phone because his product was defective and I didn't want to buy another one."
"Anyway, once I am finished reengineering my components all of which are better than stock, I will let all of you know who was right."
"I posted pics of the relocation kit under one of my earlier threads. There is really nothing to see. "
Please give up. Buy a honda.
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
Sorry man. I am beyond that. I know that there is nothing wrong with my installation. I simply stated that there are other pictures, not go and find them. I also mentioned that there is nothing to see, unless you like looking at pictures of batteries with cables attached to them. Furthermore, you can go join the ranks of Jimmy. I don't need you to explain anything because I am already done listening to you. I have already found out the information which I need from people that wish to help me solve my problem. Here is a link for you to follow: http://mopart.com
john.thompson068
Well-Known Member
Why do you go through such great lengths to make yourself look like the fool? And how could you possibly expect anybody to respect you on this board or in life? You post these quotes without any additional information and try and make me look like an idiot. But, anyone with half a brain can see how immature you are or that these are just tidbits of something greater.
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