"I Know Your Mad At United But"

[Speedbird]

I posted this separately from the other thread, so it didn't get lost. Please read with an open mind, no matter how you feel about the situation.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress....thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

There she took time to type it out for the uneducated.
Hum.
Why can't I hit both the "like" and "agree" buttons?

The news I've seen is that it was "a flight crew".
That rings true. Two pilots and two stews.
Pilots flying dead head can fly cockpit jump seat.
And stews can ride jump seat cabin.

But to get caught up in the minutiae of the story is foolish.
What seems undeniable is that man was someone who was a a problem.
His behavior was evidence on its face that he was unstable.
No room for that at 35 thousand.

 

[Jcharger]

Also flown a fair amount, but not that much. Did not fly United from 1990 - 2000 because of something they did with a refund. Then went back and flew another 800k. Stopped when they redid the way they reimburse miles to link to $$ spent instead of miles flown. I fly mostly long flights. They made their decision for the bottom line. I made my decision for my bottom line. I might return. The company I switched to just decided to go a similar route on $$ instead of miles.

He decided to resist and they decided to push it. Both have to deal with the consequences.

 

[Ranger16]

The news I've seen is that it was "a flight crew".
That rings true. Two pilots and two stews.
Pilots flying dead head can fly cockpit jump seat.
And stews can ride jump seat cabin.

There is probably only one of each on that type of aircraft. Now having said that, I can't speak for Republics pilot contract, but I suspect most pilot contracts are similar and require a first class seat when deadheading, when the aircraft is configured that way (most RJ's aren't).

 

[Ranger16]

I would almost be willing to bet that no one will ever see anywhere near $10,000 for a denied boarding. That was just good PR on Deltas part.

 

[ws23jrt]

I would almost be willing to bet that no one will ever see anywhere near $10,000 for a denied boarding. That was just good PR on Deltas part.

I'm sure that Delta has been hit -financially- by this event in a way that makes 10K seem like pocket change. Comming back from this is all about "PR".
They took a hit here that could take a long time to get out from under with all of the competition they work with.

 

[Ranger16]

The sad part is, I'm not sure how much of this is UAL's fault and how much is Republics fault (airport security aside). UA did the booking, but Republic employees handled the boarding. Either way, when you play the "express" game, you take the hit for whatever they do wrong. AA took a big hit several years back when one of their express carriers iced up and crashed in an Indiana corn field. AA had nothing to do with it, but they sold the tickets and their name was painted on the aircraft so they took the hit, and if memory serves me correctly, I think Delta took one on the nose for a crash somewhere in the SE by one of their express carriers a while back.

 

[steve from staten island]

I have to ask why you find this so sad. AA took a big hit when one of there express carriers crashed and they had nothing to do with it? They had everything to do with it. It was there carrier. They make income on the deal. Put a roof on your house. Use a contractor you get from Home Depot. The contractor screws up the job royally. Who are you going to go after? Its the same thing. Your talking people killed not a fender bender. Wasn't major airline's flying there planes out of this country for maintenance at one time or maybe they still do. One guy with a license and a bunch of God knows who working a plane your going to travel on with your family.

 

[Ranger16]

The only thing AA did was sell the tickets. They did not fly the plane. They did not maintain the plane. They did not train the crew. They have no control over the express carriers operation. They do not dispatch the flight, manage the crews flight hours or have any control over whether or not the flight is operated legally, or safely for that matter (within FAR's). That's how express works. Consider the express carriers as subcontractors.

 

[steve from staten island]

That does not take away there responsibility. You put your name on the side of a plane and sell the tickets, your responsible. If so then they (AA) should not be involved with any other airline other then themselves. I only have a few questions. Would AA put some of the pilots of these express planes in there own cockpits? Why are these carrier subcontractors paying there pilots such a low salary, not to mention the rest of the crew? Who does maintenance on these planes?

 

[ws23jrt]

I have to ask why you find this so sad. AA took a big hit when one of there express carriers crashed and they had nothing to do with it? They had everything to do with it. It was there carrier. They make income on the deal. Put a roof on your house. Use a contractor you get from Home Depot. The contractor screws up the job royally. Who are you going to go after? Its the same thing. Your talking people killed not a fender bender. Wasn't major airline's flying there planes out of this country for maintenance at one time or maybe they still do. One guy with a license and a bunch of God knows who working a plane your going to travel on with your family.

You address a great point. In any business the management knows -all- the risks they are obliged to deal with. When they sit down and decide how much risk they are willing to take on a given issue someone in the company accepts a given risk by giving something to minimize it and they move forward.
Of course the only way to -eliminate- the risk is to go out of business.
I don't see big companies like this as being mean and insensitive ogres. They are a composite of thousands of regular folks just like you and me.
I take a leap of faith in the morning that the risk I take to just go to work will end well and I will arrive to take my place in risk taking for the company I work for.
My company has many times put their *** and millions of dollars on the line for the things they pay me to do. We are a team.

I can only imaging how hard it is for all involved when a plane comes down. This has to vibrate all the way back to the folks making parts for the plane.

Sometimes when we trash a big company we lose sight of what/who we lash out at.
They are folks like us. Their is no such thing as a company that self runs and people just feed it.----YET--

 

[Ranger16]

That does not take away there responsibility. You put your name on the side of a plane and sell the tickets, your responsible.

It depends on what you're talking about. In this case, probably so.

I only have a few questions. Would AA put some of the pilots of these express planes in there own cockpits?

Absolutely not. Only AA pilots fly AA planes. Likewise with UA, DL, Republic and any other carrier you can name.

Why are these carrier subcontractors paying there pilots such a low salary, not to mention the rest of the crew?

I think the simplest answer is because they can. Crews need the time so they can upgrade to the majors and are willing to put up with lower pay and longer hours (but still with in FAA maximums).

Who does maintenance on these planes?

That I cannot say. They could have their own mechanics or they may farm it out. All the majors do their own maintenance with few exceptions.

 

[1962polara]

Problem with this is the precedent has been set. Once people ignore instructions by any authority,regardless of their perceived right ,then this will continue.
It's in the American nature ,he'll it's in your constitution "you have the right"

 

[steve from staten island]

You address a great point. In any business the management knows -all- the risks they are obliged to deal with. When they sit down and decide how much risk they are willing to take on a given issue someone in the company accepts a given risk by giving something to minimize it and they move forward.
Of course the only way to -eliminate- the risk is to go out of business.
I don't see big companies like this as being mean and insensitive ogres. They are a composite of thousands of regular folks just like you and me.
I take a leap of faith in the morning that the risk I take to just go to work will end well and I will arrive to take my place in risk taking for the company I work for.
My company has many times put their *** and millions of dollars on the line for the things they pay me to do. We are a team.

I can only imaging how hard it is for all involved when a plane comes down. This has to vibrate all the way back to the folks making parts for the plane.

Sometimes when we trash a big company we lose sight of what/who we lash out at.
They are folks like us. Their is no such thing as a company that self runs and people just feed it.----YET--

Everything involves risk, we accept that. The difference is knowing how much the risk is and deciding to do something or not to do something. Thats why i have no use for guys that dont do there job and increase risk especially mine. I also have no use for any organization that looses sight of the welfare of there workers and or customers and those who decide to increase that risk in the name of higher dividends, they are not "folks like us". If it were not for agencies like the FAA and the Coast Guard passengers would be in more risk every day they travel.

 

[Speedbird]

There is probably only one of each on that type of aircraft. Now having said that, I can't speak for Republics pilot contract, but I suspect most pilot contracts are similar and require a first class seat when deadheading, when the aircraft is configured that way (most RJ's aren't).

Oh, never mind. I thought it was a real airline.
http://www.indystar.com/story/money...ssenger-dragged-off-republic-plane/100459412/
Here it is again. It's a United plane.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...sex-court-documents-oscar-munoz-a7680221.html
Not.
Media spin and getting wrapped around the axle on the details.
Who the heck knows who the pilots/flight crew even actually worked for?
(That's a rhetorical questions. I know...... interline agreements.)


Great.
http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dragged-off-flight-convicted-of-trading-drugs-for-sex/
The passenger hauled off a United flight is a lung doctor with a taste for gambling, a history of angry outbursts — and a conviction for trading narcotics prescriptions and cash for gay sex in motels.

 

[steve from staten island]

Well i guess he's not a doctor anymore. He certainly would have lost his license if he lived in NY for what he did. Who in there right mind would knowingly seek medical care from him?

 

[mopar 3 B]

Well i guess he's not a doctor anymore. He certainly would have lost his license if he lived in NY for what he did. Who in there right mind would knowingly seek medical care from him?

Unfortunately he can go to away other state he wants and obtain a medical licence if he can pass the test and practice medicine.
Why this is still the case I have no clue.

Now the big question why is he being allowed to profit from violating the law. He took it to the point where being bumped of his flight seat is of little importance and directly violated federal law. The airline nore security made that decision for him.

 

[steve from staten island]

I dont think he can lose his license due to a felony and go to another state and get a license to practice. The guys a criminal and a crackpot but that is not the point. He could have been any law abiding citizen. The laws were written for the air line industry, read that as lobbyist's. Overbooked people should not have been allowed on the plane. Some were rightfully compensated who took another flight. Try and get your money back if you have a emergency, no insurance on your ticket. See if the airlines are understanding.

 

[mopar 3 B]

I dont think he can lose his license due to a felony and go to another state and get a license to practice. The guys a criminal and a crackpot but that is not the point. He could have been any law abiding citizen. The laws were written for the air line industry, read that as lobbyist's. Overbooked people should not have been allowed on the plane. Some were rightfully compensated who took another flight. Try and get your money back if you have a emergency, no insurance on your ticket. See if the airlines are understanding.

Unless the law recently has changed there is nothing preventing his practice in another state.
Doctor Phill lost his licence in Kansas and went national TV thank to Opra. And people swallow his crap.

I understand the getting reimbursed for ticket thing. Can not even get it if one has deceased. They may not know it but brother in law got his last plane ride anyway. Check-in baggage.

 

[steve from staten island]

So your telling me a doctor is a convicted felon and loses his license to practice medicine and he could move to a neighboring state and resume practicing medicine in that state

 

[mopar 3 B]

So your telling me a doctor is a convicted felon and loses his license to practice medicine and he could move to a neighboring state and resume practicing medicine in that state

that is what I have been told.