I need your help Determining Investment cost verses car selling value

1967coronet

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Here is my take, I look at these deals from the body shop view, Over the years I have seen people over spend on old car restoration work if the end game is to flip or make a buck ect. The next owner after the sale is the one who makes out ok. Unless a owner can preform the bulk of the work needed and donate his own hrs to his project You will end up upside down on the sale unless ............. the market outruns the cost. That though takes years and its a gamble.
If you over spend on a project that is a family heirloom then its for the love of the project and the money is not the point.
Just what turns it into a heirloom is the pass off , once that happens the money is not the issue. As long as the car stays in the family it will always be Dads / Grandpas / old car.
Sorry to ramble, Ok one old body mans advice, If a sale is coming in the near future fix the rust areas and blend the paint, leave the top alone , fix the console ect with the rust ect right now its not a 3 , get it to that point and enjoy it.
If its going to be handed down and stay with the family then restore it if the $$ is available to do it right and do not worry about the sale years down the road.
 

Dan64

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Truth is you would be money, time and hassle ahead if you sold your current car,added 30k or whatever and bought a finished car if that's what you truly want. Most of us don't do it that way because the up front money is so scary, but it is cheaper in the long run. That way you have a KNOWN cost of your car and avoid "body shop jail". Most of my experience has been with Hot rods, customs and not muscle cars, muscle cars seem to fair better but not by much depending upon market timing. I feel lucky if i can get back 70 percent of my investment after 5 years or so on a build. In comparison i could buy a finished car ,drive it for 5 years and break even ,maybe a little up or down depending on the market at time of purchase and sale. Life is short, if your into the build process then build it ,if shows / cruises is where it's at for you then look at buying done.
 

moparnutcase

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Just my opinion and nothing against those who own/like them........I personally would NEVER buy a non matching numbers car unless it was so dirt cheap you could not say no. I don't care how nice it is, I would never pay big bucks for it.
 

moparedtn

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IMO, you can't truly "restore" any car that isn't numbers-matching - unless, of course,
you have access to the original drivetrain.
In a word, the car is already "resto-modded" technically as they say these days.
A really cool, rare ride for sure - but it will never fetch the top money an original equipped
one would.
Hagerty's valuation tool is actually pretty darn accurate, since they base their stuff on actual
sale prices (not to mention, they're probably the experts in insuring these things).

If it was me as a true-blooded Mopar guy (and I am, for 40+ years now), I'd be 1)making her
roadworthy to the extent of being worry-free, then 2)doing enough body and paint to make her
solid, rust-free and presentable.
I'd then proceed to drive it every darn chance I got - and not think of $$$ all the time.

Trust me - I know of which I speak. These guys will tell you, I have a similar story to yours in
that my car is also not a numbers car, I am not terribly long for the planet either - and I've just
spent the last decade fighting off cancer after cancer, all the while feverishly trying to get my GTX
done so that my wife would be able to sell it once I was gone - so yeah, it became a chore and I
worried about the ROI on the thing all the time.
It ain't a hobby anymore if one thinks about it that way.
Screw all that noise....

If they aren't a matching, original car, don't throw tons of money at them that
nobody will ever recoup - and don't be worried about the damn money to begin with.
Fix it up. Drive it. Enjoy it.
Make sure you don't leave a mess of a project for those behind when the time comes.
That's it, that simple.
I enjoy the hell out of mine now. :thumbsup:
 

Tom Petty Lives

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I say drive it like you stole it. You will never recoup what it will cost to restore the R/T. If that is your concern, gradually fix only what's needed and enjoy the heck out of it. As mentioned above, if you start digging into that body, you are bound to open up a can of worms that will quickly eat up your allotted budget.
PS That Olds is a beauty!!!

thanks for the advice and post and the compliment. If you watch Barrett Jackson, you have heRd of the restoration company, Thornton’s Muscle Car Restoration did it. One year turned into 4 years, do this isn’t my first time around. Thornton Olds 442’s pull $90-$120k pretty regularly. Four generations of specializing in Olds restoration. But that’s why I wanted a driver quality Mopar. This Coronet still gets more looks and thumbs up than the perfect Olds 455!
 

Tom Petty Lives

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IMO, you can't truly "restore" any car that isn't numbers-matching - unless, of course,
you have access to the original drivetrain.
In a word, the car is already "resto-modded" technically as they say these days.
A really cool, rare ride for sure - but it will never fetch the top money an original equipped
one would.
Hagerty's valuation tool is actually pretty darn accurate, since they base their stuff on actual
sale prices (not to mention, they're probably the experts in insuring these things).

If it was me as a true-blooded Mopar guy (and I am, for 40+ years now), I'd be 1)making her
roadworthy to the extent of being worry-free, then 2)doing enough body and paint to make her
solid, rust-free and presentable.
I'd then proceed to drive it every darn chance I got - and not think of $$$ all the time.

Trust me - I know of which I speak. These guys will tell you, I have a similar story to yours in
that my car is also not a numbers car, I am not terribly long for the planet either - and I've just
spent the last decade fighting off cancer after cancer, all the while feverishly trying to get my GTX
done so that my wife would be able to sell it once I was gone - so yeah, it became a chore and I
worried about the ROI on the thing all the time.
It ain't a hobby anymore if one thinks about it that way.
Screw all that noise....

If they aren't a matching, original car, don't throw tons of money at them that
nobody will ever recoup - and don't be worried about the damn money to begin with.
Fix it up. Drive it. Enjoy it.
Make sure you don't leave a mess of a project for those behind when the time comes.
That's it, that simple.
I enjoy the hell out of mine now. :thumbsup:
thanks for the advice and post and the compliment. If you watch Barrett Jackson, you have heRd of the restoration company, Thornton’s Muscle Car Restoration did it. One year turned into 4 years, do this isn’t my first time around. Thornton Olds 442’s pull $90-$120k pretty regularly. Four generations of specializing in Olds restoration. But that’s why I wanted a driver quality Mopar. This Coronet still gets more looks and thumbs up than the perfect Olds 455!

Your plan is pretty much what I have been planning on doing. And I agree. Im told they only made 16 1970 R/T convertible 4-speeds for what it’s worth.
 

WileERobby

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My observation, not offered with any ill intent. I wouldn't put too much money into this car from what you say. A rarely produced car doesn't necessarily translate into value. Truth be told, this particular year, model, body style is one of the least popular Mopars of the era. Then, and now.
 

Builderguy

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This car gets you out doing something you love. Have it done in stages during the winter months so you can enjoy it each and every summer. I would not worry if people think you spent too much money on any of the work. It is your car and you are the one enjoying it. I have thrown a ton of money into projects that never made me a dime, but I had some fun doing then and had a blast driving them. You only go around once, so spend the money you feel comfortable with, and go have some fun! It is obvious that you have given up a lot in your life, it is time you get some of that back! And Sir, thank you for your service.
 

moparedtn

Ed on the Ridge
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This car gets you out doing something you love. Have it done in stages during the winter months so you can enjoy it each and every summer. I would not worry if people think you spent too much money on any of the work. It is your car and you are the one enjoying it. I have thrown a ton of money into projects that never made me a dime, but I had some fun doing then and had a blast driving them. You only go around once, so spend the money you feel comfortable with, and go have some fun! It is obvious that you have given up a lot in your life, it is time you get some of that back! And Sir, thank you for your service.

gabby (2017_10_11 10_04_54 UTC).jpg
 

Dan64

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IMO, you can't truly "restore" any car that isn't numbers-matching - unless, of course,
you have access to the original drivetrain.
In a word, the car is already "resto-modded" technically as they say these days.
A really cool, rare ride for sure - but it will never fetch the top money an original equipped
one would.
Hagerty's valuation tool is actually pretty darn accurate, since they base their stuff on actual
sale prices (not to mention, they're probably the experts in insuring these things).

If it was me as a true-blooded Mopar guy (and I am, for 40+ years now), I'd be 1)making her
roadworthy to the extent of being worry-free, then 2)doing enough body and paint to make her
solid, rust-free and presentable.
I'd then proceed to drive it every darn chance I got - and not think of $$$ all the time.

Trust me - I know of which I speak. These guys will tell you, I have a similar story to yours in
that my car is also not a numbers car, I am not terribly long for the planet either - and I've just
spent the last decade fighting off cancer after cancer, all the while feverishly trying to get my GTX
done so that my wife would be able to sell it once I was gone - so yeah, it became a chore and I
worried about the ROI on the thing all the time.
It ain't a hobby anymore if one thinks about it that way.
Screw all that noise....

If they aren't a matching, original car, don't throw tons of money at them that
nobody will ever recoup - and don't be worried about the damn money to begin with.
Fix it up. Drive it. Enjoy it.
Make sure you don't leave a mess of a project for those behind when the time comes.
That's it, that simple.
I enjoy the hell out of mine now. :thumbsup:
Wise words
 

YY1

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To me a car built as an R/T (WS VIN) is still an R/T no matter the engine.
Granted a non-numbers engine detracts from collector value.
A warranty block gets back some of the hit.

However, I agree that body work is uber expensive and easily put you WAY upside down.

I'm at the point of buying a good body 318 car rather than buying a desirable car with a bad body.
 

Budnicks

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But that’s why I wanted a driver quality Mopar.
This Coronet still gets more looks and thumbs up than the perfect Olds 455!
I think you already answered your own question
with that statement right there

I'd just drive it to enjoy it, do little fixes maybe
use it like it was intended to be used,
drove hard & put away wet,
multiple times a week,
then repeat as needed...

there's plenty of fully restored #'s matching cars out there, already !!!
even if the resto was 100% perfect a non-numbers matching combo
unless it's a really nice rest-mod/pro-touring
IMO it will have a min. of a 25% neg. hit
from an equal built resto #'s matching values
And that's right now,
in 2 - 4 years time after the resto & another $30k+ (???)
it could be who knows how much (less or more)

unless you really like doing the restorations
& spending cold hard cash
then by all mean spend/restore away, it's your car

good luck
 
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chargervert

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Do you have the buildsheet? Without it or the fendertag or buildsheet there is no way to prove it was a 4.10 Dana equipped car. All 68 to 70 B body convertibles had torque boxes and the larger axle bumpstops.
 

70chall440

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Remember that everyone of these cars started life exactly like all of their siblings regardless of end state. The whole "big money" thing has caused more than one project to end in failure. If you are concerned with what it will be worth when done than IMO you are not enjoying the hobby. If you are really interested in the cars and the hobby, then the value is incidental.
 

Tom Petty Lives

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Ok, ok, UNCLE! You all win! The thought of repairs have been beat from my mind. I own a piece of non documented crap. I will just place a for sale sign in the windshield and be done with it. I’ve learned my lesson. Being told I had a stupid thought wasn’t the first time or from this posting wont be the last time. And I’m sure I will get told a few more times. So hey, have fun, tell the new guy a few more dozen times how wrong he was for wanting to save Mopar history, I tap out. Enjoy your forum. I will go back to my Olds life and their forum where they appreciate your attempts to save history, Post a few opposing options but feel no need to play rough and dig pile a good guy. A place where I where I should have remained fat dumb and happy with my stock 10.5 to 1 Compression 455 with its 475hp 525 tq monster engine and show winning restoration. Where I cruise in style with factory A/C, tilt Wheel, power seats, power windows, power locks, power antenna, power trunk release and am/fm stereo 8 track while dropping the power top all the while knowing the car has already appraised for more than I have invested and knowing when I’m dead my family has a nest egg of memories to pass down or sell to help with life’s pitfalls.
 

JG1966

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So hey, have fun, tell the new guy a few more dozen times how wrong he was for wanting to save Mopar history, I tap out. Enjoy your forum. I will go back to my Olds life and their forum where they appreciate your attempts to save history, Post a few opposing options but feel no need to play rough and dig pile a good guy.
Ok, I read this thread from the beginning and I was very surprised to see this message at the end.
I did not get impression anyone was "playing rough or dog-piling a good guy." I think people were being honest. There was no ill-will. I love this forum and I know how good the people are. Nobody was telling you that it was a "stupid thought" for buying the car -- I like the car, my best friend in high school had a purple 70 Super Bee -- or that you were wrong for attempting to save history.
They said you almost certainly won't get your money back if you go full-resto on a non-numbers matching car (completely true). They said that body style isn't the most coveted (true). They said body work will gut you (true). You say the Olds people "appreciate attempts to save history." So do all classic car fans, us Mopar fans chief among them.
I think the issue is that you ask about sale value and making back your investment in the post title. That's not a consideration for us. We all know we never get our investment back. But it's our passion and we enjoy working on the cars, and the Mopar community and saving these old ladies.
No one was kicking you or belittling you. But when you ask if you and your family are going to come out financially ahead on this car, and they say probably not, that's not being cruel. It just is what it is. Enjoy the car and the rest will take care of itself.
 
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66 Sat

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Mate you asked a question and people gave you their honest answers. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear. We could have all pissed in your pocket and told you what a great idea it is to restore it and how much you'd make but it would have been the wrong thing to do. You should appreciate everyone giving their time to respond and know they were all trying to help you out.
 

451Mopar

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Having a '69 R/T Convertible, non-numbers matching, but originally a 440 4-speed car, I understand your situation.
The thing with the Convertibles is that so few were built, they are actually hard to find.
I have never bought a car as an investment. If I like it, I buy it, and I drive it (and modify it too.)
If you invest a bunch of money in a restoration, just consider it like buying a nice new expensive car and taking the depreciation hit.
I have to admit that I got my car at a reasonable price as non-numbers matching, but my plan was to modify the car anyway.
I also bought it as a project car because I enjoy working on, and modifying the car.
If I had to sell the car, as in wanting it gone quickly, I would likely loose half the money I have into it.
If someone really wanted the car, and I have no intention of selling it, They better bring over twice the amount I have in the car.
 

451Mopar

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Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts. My thought was that I paid $32k so far. I could afford to invest $30-$33k to fix the existing issues to make it a strong running, solid performance 475hp 550tq 18 spline, 4:10 true 1970 Dodge Coronet R/T 440 convertible and a true Top Banana Yellow Black on Black black bubble bee stripe car. With a total investment of $65k and enjoy the car and hope I can break even if I ever need to sell or my wife can sell if I pass away.

#1 - Get a life insurance policy so your wife won't have to sell the car.
#2 - Do what you need to do to enjoy the car, life's short. Do you really care what the car is worth after you pass away?
 
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