I want to build a budget 451 stroker.... school me.

[TX73SE]

Hey Guys,

I've been reading a ton about engine configurations since recently buying my 73 Charger SE

The car is equipped with a 400 with 906 heads, currently not running (was missing a few parts when purchased)

From what ive deciphered, am I accurate in the understanding that all that is needed is a 440 crank, LY rods, and the KB pistons, and of course the machine work for boring and balancing?


Thanks in advance for any input and advice

Daniel

 

[wyrmrider]

which kb pistons?
think how you are going to get an quench withose heads
are your 906 heads in tip top shape
what compression and fuel are you thinking of?
do you have the crank?
if not look at SCAT kits
find some closed chamber heads and D dish pistons

 

[Xp29h]

If you got a 400 block, Go big. A 512 kit is the same money and it can be made to be very street-able and can go on pump gas.

When I researched mine, it was the same price as the 451 to 512, the dependability was the same, except of course when one gets after it, anything can happen. Build was same money everything was the same kit vs kit so I figured why not go big? I have zero regrets of going 512! Purrs like a kitten


440source makes a complete kit

http://store.440source.com/Stroker-Kits/products/3/

I should add that if you stick with the 451, all those kits are there too!

 

[TX73SE]

Thanks guys I appreciate it.

my question is, what extra am I getting with those kits versus a forged 440 crank (3.75” stroke) and ly rods. Or even 440 six pack rods (read they’re heavier... so it’s a trade off)

regarding the pistons. I believe I read they were KB240s

re the heads they’re ok. That being said I have considered the aluminum edelbrock e street heads or the pro maxx heads as an alternative.

obviously they factory forged crank would need to be ground down to fit... (or the block opening up to hold it) but that still seems far more economical than $2300 kit. What am I missing?

Input is appreciated. I just want a better understanding of the differences

 

[Dajkzo]

Hey Guys,

I've been reading a ton about engine configurations since recently buying my 73 Charger SE

The car is equipped with a 400 with 906 heads, currently not running (was missing a few parts when purchased)

From what ive deciphered, am I accurate in the understanding that all that is needed is a 440 crank, LY rods, and the KB pistons, and of course the machine work for boring and balancing?


Thanks in advance for any input and advice

Daniel

Just know that you must either turn the main journals on the 440 crank down to fit the B block, or bore the mains on the block to fit the 440 crank. And upgrade the rod bolts when you recondition a set of LY rods.

 

[BSB67]

.....What am I missing?

A lot.
At the end of the day, I'd bet there is not $500 difference in what your doing and a 512 stroker, and you'll have a smaller motor, with a 50 year old crank and crappy rods. And what you're doing will be $10,000 when you're done. The cost of crank and rods is not where all the money goes.

 

[ruffcut]

Im in the process of building a 512 with a 400 block. I agree with others about the cost. It wouldn't be much different cost wise between the 451 amd a 512. Plus a lot more Torque! with the 512 Ruffcut

 

[747mopar]

A lot.
At the end of the day, I'd bet there is not $500 difference in what your doing and a 512 stroker, and you'll have a smaller motor, with a 50 year old crank and crappy rods. And what you're doing will be $10,000 when you're done. The cost of crank and rods is not where all the money goes.

Do explain the cost because I built almost exactly what he's talking about for less than half of that?

 

[Hemirunner]

Do explain the cost because I built almost exactly what he's talking about for less than half of that?

They’re pricing that as buying a stroker kit either way. You could scrounge a 440 crank and LY rods for little to nothing and build that 451 on the cheap.

 

[TX73SE]

They’re pricing that as buying a stroker kit either way. You could scrounge a 440 crank and LY rods for little to nothing and build that 451 on the cheap.

This is what I was thinking.

I’ve found posts for both ly rods and the six pack rods.
I’ve read the 6 pack are heavier so was leaning toward the ly rods.
Also, they’re a bit cheaper.

regarding forged cranks. I’ve seen several for sale. If I’m grinding it down, what do I care if they’ve been turned a few times?

I’ve even read you could use a cast crank if you’re not shooting for the moon.
That said I’m thinking 440 forged crank and the 440 rods.
Some even said you can use the 400 rods, but I’m admittedly a bit fuzzy on the differences there.

 

[Hemirunner]

This is what I was thinking.

I’ve found posts for both ly rods and the six pack rods.
I’ve read the 6 pack are heavier so was leaning toward the ly rods.
Also, they’re a bit cheaper.

regarding forged cranks. I’ve seen several for sale. If I’m grinding it down, what do I care if they’ve been turned a few times?

I’ve even read you could use a cast crank if you’re not shooting for the moon.
That said I’m thinking 440 forged crank and the 440 rods.
Some even said you can use the 400 rods, but I’m admittedly a bit fuzzy on the differences there.

You don’t want the 6 pack rods. Heavy in all the wrong places. Get LY rods and a forged crank. Weigh out the cost of turning the crank (offset grinding can be pricey) vs line boring the block to 440 main bore. The bearing selection is better. Spend the money on good heads and intake.

 

[TX73SE]

You don’t want the 6 pack rods. Heavy in all the wrong places. Get LW rods and a forged crank. Weigh out the cost of turning the crank (offset grinding can be pricey) vs line boring the block to 440 main bore. The bearing selection is better. Spend the money on good heads and intake.

what you’re saying was exactly what I was thinking (Spend money on the heads/intake, etc. )

is it worth the money to consider a roller cam?

retro kits on these motors seem pricey... but I’m not entirely sure how reliable the old stamped shaft mount valve train stuff is and I know tappet cams give up hp to friction.

 

[Hemirunner]

what you’re saying was exactly what I was thinking (Spend money on the heads/intake, etc. )

is it worth the money to consider a roller cam?

retro kits on these motors seem pricey... but I’m not entirely sure how reliable the old stamped shaft mount valve train stuff is and I know tappet cams give up hp to friction.

A roller will always make more power but at a much higher cost. I’d look at edm solid lifter, flat tappet cam. It’ll be a huge savings over a roller. Just be sure to break it in correctly as that’s where a lot of flat tappet cam failures occur.

 

[747mopar]

I built almost exactly the same combination your asking about for $4,500, that doesn't include the crank or block since I already had both. I used a 73 400 block, the complete rotating assembly from a 71 440 and a set of 452 heads. This wasn't a cheap cut corners build.

Crank was turned to the 400 mains and of coarse reground.

I believe there were 4 throws on the crank that needed a 45 degree relief to clear the block which I did myself.

Rods were resized and bushed.

Rotating assembly balanced.

Heads were completely gone through, seats, guides, ported, all new valves, springs, etc.

Block was decked, bored and honed with deck plate... the mains were checked, pretty sure it didn't need line honed.

All ARP fasteners.

KB240 pistons.

Eddy RPM intake.

Comp Cam.

Comp magnum rockers.

Keep in mind I did my own porting, assembly and clearanced the crank myself plus scored some bargain deals along the way. My only regret is the heads, they produced good flow numbers for their intended use but the cost... I was idiotic to not put that money towards an AMERICAN made set of aluminum heads!

With that said I've racked up well over 20,000 miles, burned a lot of black donuts and embarrassed a few teenagers with not one issue other than a fuel pump.

 

[myk r sanchez]

I built almost exactly the same combination your asking about for $4,500, that doesn't include the crank or block since I already had both. I used a 73 400 block, the complete rotating assembly from a 71 440 and a set of 452 heads. This wasn't a cheap cut corners build.

Crank was turned to the 400 mains and of coarse reground.

I believe there were 4 throws on the crank that needed a 45 degree relief to clear the block which I did myself.

Rods were resized and bushed.

Rotating assembly balanced.

Heads were completely gone through, seats, guides, ported, all new valves, springs, etc.

Block was decked, bored and honed with deck plate... the mains were checked, pretty sure it didn't need line honed.

All ARP fasteners.

KB240 pistons.

Eddy RPM intake.

Comp Cam.

Comp magnum rockers.

Keep in mind I did my own porting, assembly and clearanced the crank myself plus scored some bargain deals along the way. My only regret is the heads, they produced good flow numbers for their intended use but the cost... I was idiotic to not put that money towards an AMERICAN made set of aluminum heads!

With that said I've racked up well over 20,000 miles, burned a lot of black donuts and embarrassed a few teenagers with not one issue other than a fuel pump.

Awesome story. I wish I could do my own work as well...

 

[TX73SE]

I built almost exactly the same combination your asking about for $4,500, that doesn't include the crank or block since I already had both. I used a 73 400 block, the complete rotating assembly from a 71 440 and a set of 452 heads. This wasn't a cheap cut corners build.

Crank was turned to the 400 mains and of coarse reground.

I believe there were 4 throws on the crank that needed a 45 degree relief to clear the block which I did myself.

Rods were resized and bushed.

Rotating assembly balanced.

Heads were completely gone through, seats, guides, ported, all new valves, springs, etc.

Block was decked, bored and honed with deck plate... the mains were checked, pretty sure it didn't need line honed.

All ARP fasteners.

KB240 pistons.

Eddy RPM intake.

Comp Cam.

Comp magnum rockers.

Keep in mind I did my own porting, assembly and clearanced the crank myself plus scored some bargain deals along the way. My only regret is the heads, they produced good flow numbers for their intended use but the cost... I was idiotic to not put that money towards an AMERICAN made set of aluminum heads!

With that said I've racked up well over 20,000 miles, burned a lot of black donuts and embarrassed a few teenagers with not one issue other than a fuel pump.

Thank you sir. This was exactly what I was thinking.

I've got a really good 70 year old machinist that treats me well.

I have the original 400 that came in my 73 SE....I don't have 10k to spend on the motor alone.

This car will be a lot of sweat equity and I want to spend dollars where there's a strong ROI, as I am not at a phase of life where I have dollars to waste.

Heck, i've kicked around just a simple rebuild but this 451 intrigued me.

Thanks for your input

 

[Ironbuilt]

Good luck with your build. Between @747mopar and @Hemirunner you are getting real solid advice. Follow their lead and you won't go wrong with your build. Keep us informed.

 

[m79ded]

I built a 451 and I'm very happy with it on the street, I chose to put very good light components in it and it makes a world of difference, Lighter is lot less stress and better quality metal than those 50 year old parts. Do it right once and don't look back. I've seen too many guys do it on the cheap just to be re-doing it a year later. I also did a 470 and I must say the 470 was by far awesome, It has so much torque it's amazing. It's alot easier on cooling, drive train and side loads on the block, by far better on the street IMO Good luck whichever way you go.

 

[67charger383]

Get a 512. It’ll be better. I was going to get a 440 source 496 kit for my 383 but went with a used forged rotating assembly with 12-1 dome pistons because it was REALLY cheap.

 

[BSB67]

I built almost exactly the same combination your asking about for $4,500, that doesn't include the crank or block since I already had both. I used a 73 400 block, the complete rotating assembly from a 71 440 and a set of 452 heads. This wasn't a cheap cut corners build.

Crank was turned to the 400 mains and of coarse reground.

I believe there were 4 throws on the crank that needed a 45 degree relief to clear the block which I did myself.

Rods were resized and bushed.

Rotating assembly balanced.

Heads were completely gone through, seats, guides, ported, all new valves, springs, etc.

Block was decked, bored and honed with deck plate... the mains were checked, pretty sure it didn't need line honed.

All ARP fasteners.

KB240 pistons.

Eddy RPM intake.

Comp Cam.

Comp magnum rockers.

Keep in mind I did my own porting, assembly and clearanced the crank myself plus scored some bargain deals along the way. My only regret is the heads, they produced good flow numbers for their intended use but the cost... I was idiotic to not put that money towards an AMERICAN made set of aluminum heads!

With that said I've racked up well over 20,000 miles, burned a lot of black donuts and embarrassed a few teenagers with not one issue other than a fuel pump.

So what exactly was the cost of buying the crank, the crank grinding and counter weight cutting, rebuilding the rods, file fit rings, pistons, rod bearings, main bearings, and balancing the assy, and when did you do it? Lets be sure we're looking at his cost in today's dollars.

Exactly what rod did you use with that 1.908" compression height KB240 piston?