I'm getting close to switching to a roller cam in the big block!

[HawkRod]

I’ve used that tool on performance single springs. Hawk is correct. Your hand will become generally unhappy before you are done, but doable.

Do you have double springs? If you do, I’m not sure how well that tool will work. Maybe others have experience.

It sucks. You have have to push with whatever force necessary to compress the inner spring. Removing is bad, but reinstalling is terrible. Need 2 people. That's was big SFT springs, not sure how fun roller springs would be.

Yeah, the simple tool works for simple spring setups. For big stuff, I use the machine pictured below! In this case, it is a head from a pulling tractor. Each head (the tractor has 3) weighs 108 lbs, and the springs have over 1000 pounds of pressure. I wouldn't try the hand tool for that!

 

[PRHeads]

a little back-tracking to the button conversation……..

A customer sent me a sample of a nylon type button with a couple of sleeves.
One of the sleeves is a bit longer than what is typically used, and can be custom tailored length wise if necessary.

Available thru eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/156663504636

One other difference between this button and the Comp nylon button is the diameter of the portion that contacts the cover.
The Comp 206 button has a larger OD which I have had to relieve for cam bolt clearance.
This other button has the button basically the same diameter as the sleeve.

 

[BSB67]

 

[ckessel]

Good to know for later.

 

[Kern Dog]

I welcome all helpful tips. Threads like this serve as a reference for those that are thinking of a similar project in the future.
Sometime in 2019 (I think) FBBO member @watermelon (Eric ?) had a thread about installing a Tremec 5 speed manual in his car. Seeing it inspired me to do the same thing. I like meeting fellow forum members at car shows that have had threads on the forums that have helped people.

 

[ckessel]

Greg, you're being my Guinea Pig on this adventure. Info way ahead of time. I have a HR coming in tomorrow for the wagon's fresh but not done 440. Decided to spend some extra as opposed to $700 or so twice plus more for damaged new parts from a HFT failure.

 

[Kern Dog]

In defense of flat tappet cams, my Lunati looked perfect. Every lifter did too. It has maybe 5000 miles on it and has always had proper oil.
I don't think that the majority of flat tappet cams fail, it is just that more have failed in the last 20 years than the 20 before that.
Something changed.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

In defense of flat tappet cams, my Lunati looked perfect. Every lifter did too. It has maybe 5000 miles on it and has always had proper oil.
I don't think that the majority of flat tappet cams fail, it is just that more have failed in the last 20 years than the 20 before that.
Something changed.

I was discussing exactly this earlier today with a friend who owns an automotive machine shop...Back in the eighties lots of Chevy 350's ate the #5 exhaust lobe 9 times out of 10 it was #5 exhaust.. And we would slide a new cam in without pulling the pan, never had an issue...
Then in 1989 a friend built a high dollar (for the time) 351C, it ate three lobes during break-in... Metal embedded in the pistons, scored the cylinder walls... Tore up the crank, basically destroyed the engine...
Likely a anomaly didn't see anything like that again till the early 2000's but it got my attention & I started checking details I'd previously taken for granted, lifter rotation, light springs during break in.. Extra attention to the cam lube & break-in procedure..
Personally I've never lost a cam, worked on plenty of engines that did, but none that I built... Then again the motors I build tend to be less wild these days.. Knocking on wood right about now.. LOL..

 

[Kern Dog]

Looking back, I lost 2 Comp Cams in this engine and the reason for it could have been the products OR....
* The oil I used was regular type oil with "Comp Cams" break in supplement. Many now feel that these supplements may not be compatible with oil that it wasn't designed to mix with.
* I didn't change the valve springs. I was told that the ones that came with Edelbrock heads would be fine.
* During break in, the engine got hot so I shut it down to cool off. Upon restart, I lost spark and cranked on it a bit trying replacement parts until it started.
I lost a MP '528 solid despite using the EDM direct oiling lifters. It was fine for years until I switched to a synthetic oil that claimed to have extra zinc. Some told me that the high detergent rendered the zinc worthless.
In the 2009-2010 era, I lost a MP 292/508 in a small block. Back then it didn't occur to me to check for lifter rotation, the proper oil to use or valve spring pressure. I'd seen others slap similar stuff together without trouble but I screwed the pooch on that one.

 

[Billccm]

Combination of Chinesium and reduced zinc has impacted the flat tappet. My machine shop agrees.

 

[Kern Dog]

The intake is almost ready for paint.

This paint stripper…

It was my last resort. Acetone didn’t wrinkle this paint but I’d bet if I sprayed my hood it would wrinkle up like Tommy Lee Jones.

Another round of scraping and wire wheeling followed by sandblasting. It should be ready for this now….

Unfortunately it is not warm enough to paint and rain is in the forecast for several days. There is still plenty to do.

 

[Kern Dog]

Friday, FBBO member @CoronetDarter and I went to the Summit racing store in Nevada. He got a few things, I got oil, gaskets and these:

They do look nice, but do you see anything out of place?

Well they load the rocker arms all lefts on one shaft, rights on the other… sort of.

Why are there 9 lefts and 7 rights ? The box was opened when I got it but when I opened it, everything seemed to be there except the instructions. Now I see either PRW messed up or some piece of **** customer bought, then returned them as an incomplete set. I’ll have to call them tomorrow and see if they will just ship one right hand side. This is the second incomplete part I bought from Summit. The roller cam button was missing its collar. The package it was in was intact though. If I had looked closer while still at the store, I may have caught it. Dirtbag car guys will do this ****… break something then buy a replacement and return their used POS for a refund. Summit should have caught this if that were the case.
Years back I ordered a clutch and received a box that had been opened and inside was a wrong size pressure plate despite the part number on the box being what I had ordered.
That idiot I used to know that lived in a tee pee did **** like this.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

If your gonna paint it that implies stealth... It'll be orange but it'll still look like a Performer RPM... Gotta take some of the obvious aftermarket visual away....

 

[Kern Dog]

This is my first time setting valve spring installed height. Bear with me here… what you see may differ from how you do it. Feel free to chime in to let me know how you would do it different.
On the work bench, I laid down cardboard then made brackets to secure the head to the table.

The hillbilly spring tool was used.

The first spring was removed along with the seal, locks and retainer. I removed the steel seat at the bottom to make sure nothing was underneath it. All looked good so I put the measuring tool in place along with the original locks and retainer.

Im pretty sure the spec I got was 1.860 plus or minus .010. That means 1.850 to 1.870. This was 1.855, right within the range.
Next was with the new locks and retainer.

That looks like 1.841. That is outside the range. Does that mean I’d have to have the spring seat cut to meet spec? Look at the difference in the size of the locks:

This was an exhaust valve. I don’t know if that matters. If durability isn’t an issue, I’d be okay with just buying new standard type locks and sticking with that rather than having to machine the spring seats.
What if the valves were removed and the seats cleaned a little? I just removed the measuring tool, rotated the valve against the seat a few times and it must have scuffed off some carbon.

1.858. That is almost perfect right there.
Score! I guess instead of just replacing the springs, I’ll clean these up a bit.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I'm assuming the original keepers are 7 degree & the new ones are 10 degree? Cutting the seat in the head is one option, but a retainer or keepers with a different height is easier & probably cheaper...

 

[RemCharger]

This is the fun part with variable retainers, AND keepers.. depends how far you need to go. Also need to see if the spring cup is too fat.

This is where people wonder how they had to pay someone for their time and labor/ experience to set them up!

 

[RemCharger]

Take them all apart and see if the valve job should be cleaned up first. Spring height is the last step.

 

[Kern Dog]

Take them all apart and see if the valve job should be cleaned up first. Spring height is the last step.

I got the exhaust and intake done on one chamber and they are within spec. I think Rem's advice here may allow me to use what I have to get this done if I'm lucky. The simple act of spinning the valve against the seat loosened up something....enough to change the measurement from 1.841 to 1.858. How the heck did that happen? I must have had some crud under a valve for a moment. Maybe the locks were not all the way in place, the retainers may have settled. Not sure.
It does make sense to tear these down and clean the seats and the valves as well. I was not using oil, the compression numbers are pretty consistent and it did not smoke.
The shim process is new to me. The exhaust valve measured within spec as is, the intake though....I used the measuring tool....

Installed the new retainer and lock and got 1.885 which is .025 outside of spec. I grabbed the shims...

Took one of the .030 ones...

I laid it on the spring base. It did not sit inside...

Not knowing, I figured that maybe they are supposed to go under the spring base?

With that, I was back to 1.855.

I did put a new valve stem seal in both.
I'll pull these back out to clean the valve seats and valves themselves, then go back to where I started. Man...this seems a lot easier than if I was doing this in the car.

 

[66 Sat]

With that, I . Man...this seems a lot easier than if I was doing this in the car.

It's probably1000 times easier than leaning over a fender, feeding rope or compressed air in the spark plug hole stopping the valve from dropping, lower back cramping up...

I reckon you made the right choice to remove the heads, definitely worth it.

 

[Kern Dog]

Yes sir, I think so.
I hear of guys that change valve springs in the car after a cam swap, at the raceway, on the dyno....What a pisser. Maybe with more experience I'd get faster at it. One time many years ago I changed the valve stem seals on these heads while they were installed. THAT was fun.

One thing that we have to remind ourselves when we feel intimidated about taking on a project....
Its just nuts, bolts, screws and clips that hold this stuff together. What one man can do, another man can as well.