In tank fuel pump or remote sump

[68Moparmaniac]

Geez, I guess the bellybuttons have come out on this one. I thought this thread was for EFI fuel pump conversations, not a I gotta electric fuel pump for my 4150. How can you bad mouth a system that you have no experience with? Do you or have or ever had a Aeromotive turbine pump in you ride? Why do you think the Aeromotive EFI pump is inferior to a Walbro? Have experience with this? What EFI system have you put together? What I gather from researching EFI in tank pump failures is the system wasn't set up properly to keep the pump from overheating and taking a crap. Return style system is required to keep the pump cool. External pumps will do the same thing if the setup isn't right, over heat a external pump and it takes a crap also, I guess it all comes down to what turns your crank. It's your thing do what you wanna do....

 

[gkent]

Sorry if we hurt your feelings by not heeding your advice to the letter !!

Why do you think the Aeromotive EFI pump is inferior to a Walbro?

Never said its inferior. However, I did say that in the event of an issue you can get a Walbro pump just about anywhere other than a pharmacy and ANY Walbro pump will let you limp home.

 

[diesel_lv]

Sorry for the hiatus, I decided to leave it w an online 340lph fuel pump and return line back to tank. "If" I get starvation issues, "then" I'll address the problem and go to Aeromotive in tank system. Don't fix it if it ain't broke, right. And I won't know until I try it.

Thanks for all the replies n suggestions.

 

[70chall440]

I just found this thread, so I apologize. I have installed 2 in-tank systems and 1 external system and am about to do a second external. Here are my thoughts/experiences (for whatever they are worth);

On the 2 in-tanks systems I used a Tanks Inc. tank and pump; great systems overall and they work well. Tanks Inc. sells trap doors that you can weld into the trunk above the pump and I completely agree that if that pump goes out it is a cluster to get out especially if the tank is full or even half full. Like you, I am a one man show although I do have a lift, but even so it is a total PIA. I did not install a trap door on my Challenger, but I intend to. On my 52 Dodge PU, a trap door isn't really an option due to where everything is located, so I will have to suck that up.

On the inline system on my 73 Cuda, I am using a Walbro pump mounted on the frame rail below the tank (has shielding around it to protect it). I used this because it came as a part of a kit and was the first EFI system I ever purchased. I did cut open the tank and baffled it and in retrospect should have installed an internal pump; only because I chopped up the tank and making the provision for a pump would have been relatively easy. I think the external pump is fine so long as you mount it as it is supposed to be and I also agree that maintaining an external is far easier, but its relative IMO. I mean that internal pumps tend to last a long time so it might not even be an issue.

The car I am getting ready to do next is a 69 Wagon with a 440 6 pack and I am going use an external system on it because the owner just installed a new tank. I will be using most likely either a Fitech pump or a Bousch 44 pump bc the Fitech "tri power" needs 58 psi.

Nothing wrong with either system, you just have to ensure you have good filters regardless.

 

[493 Mike]

I purchased the Aeromotive pump control for my A-1000 in tank pump. It's not inexpensive but, is recommended for street cars.
Mike

 

[70chall440]

Just approach this thoughtfully and slowly, look at what you intend to do and check that everything is going to fit. With the in tank systems on an E body, there isn't much room to work with and on my Challenger, I had to drop the tank several times because I had a leak up at the pump (which is why I am going to put in the trap door). Lastly, when you get it put together, do not add a lot of fuel, just a gallon to 2 until you are sure it is going to work and not leak (ask me how I know...).

 

[Floydrules]

Hey Chal. I'm looking at a Tanks Inc PA4 in tank pump with the LS line kit that has the "corvette" filter/regulator. Any experience with that line kit?

 

[diesel_lv]

Just approach this thoughtfully and slowly, look at what you intend to do and check that everything is going to fit. With the in tank systems on an E body, there isn't much room to work with and on my Challenger, I had to drop the tank several times because I had a leak up at the pump (which is why I am going to put in the trap door). Lastly, when you get it put together, do not add a lot of fuel, just a gallon to 2 until you are sure it is going to work and not leak (ask me how I know...).

I have planned on doing just that for initial fuel system check, key on n engine off, let system pressurize and check for leaks. "Then" add more fuel.

 

[70chall440]

Hey Chal. I'm looking at a Tanks Inc PA4 in tank pump with the LS line kit that has the "corvette" filter/regulator. Any experience with that line kit?

Cannot say that I have, the 2 I have bought from them I ordered the tank and then the pump that matched the engine (HP size); then I bought filters, regulator, lines and fittings individually. For me this was a far better option and I believe slightly cheaper. It isn't magic, you just need a pump that will produce more pressure than you EFI system requires, 2 good filters (1 x 40 micron and 1 x 100 micron) and then run the lines as you want them.

 

[Floydrules]

What regulator do you like with the in tank pumps? This is my first go round with the EFI systems.

 

[70chall440]

Well really any will work for the most part so long as it can withstand the pressure of the pump. I would recommend a "name brand" and look for one that is rebuildable. I always out a mechanical gauge on mine so I can see the pressure. Check the instructions of your EFI system, they usually will provide recommendations and in some cases have specific requirements. There are lots of regulators out there and so long as they meet the requirements of your EFI system, you are good. I will say this; when it comes to EFI do not go cheap on anything. You don't need the most expensive stuff out there, but you also don't want the cheapest. Point in case fuel lines; there are lots of people who say that you can use some parts store rubber (EFI) line to plumb your system and you might be able to (for awhile) but this hose is not designed for long term (or long runs) use. You really need to use quality line and fittings. I use Fragola series 8000 line and push lock fittings. You do not need stainless steel line, there are other options and the series 8000 works well plus you don't shred your fingers working with it. Putting it together can be a challenge but not insurmountable.

 

[Floydrules]

Thanks. That's a big help

 

[70chall440]

Very welcome. The #1 thing with EFI is your electrical power, it has to be strong and clean. Many guys have installed EFI onto vintage cars and retained their stock charging system only to be plagues with issues. I use 120A Nippo Denso alternators out of a 89 Dakota which any parts store has. They have a twin Vee belt pulley so you can still use the vee belt. You do have to play with the brackets a bit sometimes to get them to line up but they work well. I also modify the charging wiring and run a #4 cable from the alternator to the starter relay where it meets the cable from the battery. There are a number of threads on various forums that go over this as well as a website https://www.mymopar.com/charging.htm

 

[71RRHI]

I completely agree. If I could find a '67 B body tank that was baffled to not starve a pickup under any conditions and then mount a Walbro frame mounted pump, that would be perfect. Ideal actually.

Hot Rod City garage makes baffled tanks, with internal pumps for 67 Coronets, had mine almost two years no problems.

 

[Floydrules]

Probably should have mentioned that I'm installing a 2005 5.7. But I will make a note of that on the next project which is a 73 340 Challenger that will probably have an EFI system

 

[diesel_lv]

Hot Rod City garage makes baffled tanks, with internal pumps for 67 Coronets, had mine almost two years no problems. View attachment 901126

I saw a post about them, tried contacting them for about a yr. No return messages or emails. Finally gave up. Not sure on their price, but out of principle, if running an external pump doesn't work, I'll be going with the Aeromotive tank. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[70chall440]

They are not cheap, seem to remember that they were over $400. they are very nice units to be sure but you can get a tank and a pump from Tanks Inc. for $500. Knowing what I do after having installed a few EFI systems, I would either buy an EFI ready tank (if available) or I would modify a stock tank for either an in tank pump or just run an external. Any of them will work, there are pros and cons for everything but in this area most of the issues are relatively minor.

An external pump makes more noise but it isn't like having a gas generator in your trunk or anything, it is just a humming and if you have a engine that makes any HP you probably are not going to hear it much especially if you have any sound deadener in your car. Personally, I like the noise so that I know its working. The main issues with external pumps is finding a place to mount them, the manufacturers want them mounted below tank level but within 2 feet of the tank (ideally), this can be a challenge in Mopars due to their design but it can be done. It is said that external pumps don't last as long because they get hot, however since they are mounted externally they are relatively easy to change especially if they are installed with AN fittings (as they should be).

An in-tank pump is quieter and reportedly lasts longer because it is kept cool in the tank, however if it does die you have to drop the tank to replace it unless you install a trap door to provide access (highly recommended), that said they typically last a long time so it isn't that much of an issue.

Much of the problems people have with EFI conversions is a lack of adherence to the recommendations of the various component manufacturers; not enough electrical power, bad electrical connections, mounting the pump in a bad position, not using the right filters, etc. There is undoubtedly a learning curve with EFI, but it is not insurmountable and once you get it right, you will be very happy. That said, EFI components are just like all automotive components and there are bad ones out there, so it is not unheard of to get a bad ECU, sensors, etc. but this should not be a condemnation of EFI overall.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[68Moparmaniac]

I saw a post about them, tried contacting them for about a yr. No return messages or emails. Finally gave up. Not sure on their price, but out of principle, if running an external pump doesn't work, I'll be going with the Aeromotive tank. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Phantom 340 was the choice I made for my multi port

 

[70chall440]

Looks like a nice unit