Leaving Power on the Table, 440

[33 IMP]

I'm sorry, I assumed those passes were on a drag radial. If they were on something like t/a radials, you weren't doing too bad. They are worthless as drag tires.
I'm betting the mickey dr's you already have will help a bunch.

 

[70ChargerRT]

It isn't. Can you walk me through what a professional tuner can do for me?

My goal is to determine if my parts are working together well enough to get it solidly into the 12's at altitude. Looking for anything to improve times at the track. The cam I currently have works well but I think there are better profiles out there.
I like all the suggestions. I'm not going to throw parts at it yet. I'm going to drop the exhaust and play with what I have. I've never raced, plan to do it more often now that I have a track close and want to determine if a few small changes are beneficial. This will always be a street car.
Thanks.

FAST Man EFI, Fuel Injection, California
Call this guy. You need a laptop, USB cord for the sniper, timing light and some good Wi-Fi or some fast 5G for a hotspot. Yes you may have a few things that could be making you go a little slower, gearing and so forth but I wouldn’t even worry about anything else or those things until you get it professionally tuned. I actually wouldn’t even be running it to be honest with you. When you call Richard have your specs ready so you can tell him what you have. I would love to know what he says about the cam you’re running.

 

[threewood]

Do you know what your cranking cylinder pressure is?

I do but it's written down at home. Let me see if I can calculate here at work...

 

[BSB67]

I do but it's written down at home. Let me see if I can calculate here at work...

Ideally it is a measurement, not a calculation. There are too many variables for the calculation to be accurate and the measurement is simple. This info tells us/confirms a lot.

 

[threewood]

Ideally it is a measurement, not a calculation. There are too many variables for the calculation to be accurate and the measurement is simple. This info tells us/confirms a lot.

My bad, I misread that. I had compression ratio and in my head when I read that.
I can pull the plugs and get a psi tonight.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If its 0 deck and 9.5 cc valve relief +.040, .039 gasket, 80cc stealth..summits calculator says 10.27:1.
Edited...Thanks BSB67


Sticky tires they will want you to have a driveshaft loop on the transmission end. If you don't have one.

 

[RemCharger]

If its 0 deck and 5 cc valve relief +.040, .039 gasket, 80cc stealth..summits calculator says 10.7:1.


Sticky tires they will want you to have a driveshaft loop on the transmission end. If you don't have one.

Yup and no further than 6" from the ujoint centerline

 

[BSB67]

If its 0 deck and 5 cc valve relief +.040, .039 gasket, 80cc stealth..summits calculator says 10.7:1.


Sticky tires they will want you to have a driveshaft loop on the transmission end. If you don't have one.

Yep. Could be 10.7.

But the piston have 9.5 cc.

It might be 0.000” deck, but the way 3wood stated it, he did not measure it.

The heads might be be 80 cc, or 78, or 84.

Knowing cylinder pressure where the car operates is worthwhile info, IMO.

 

[threewood]

If its 0 deck and 5 cc valve relief +.040, .039 gasket, 80cc stealth..summits calculator says 10.7:1.


Sticky tires they will want you to have a driveshaft loop on the transmission end. If you don't have one.

Already installed

 

[threewood]

Yep. Could be 10.7.

But the piston have 9.5 cc.

It might be 0.000” deck, but the way 3wood stated it, he did not measure it.

The heads might be be 80 cc, or 78, or 84.

Knowing cylinder pressure where the car operates is worthwhile info, IMO.

I did not cc the heads or piston reliefs. The info I got for compression was from factory specs. Pistons were measured TDC for 0 deck. And I have all that written down.

 

[BSB67]

I did not cc the heads or piston reliefs. The info I got for compression was from factory specs. Pistons were measured TDC for 0 deck. And I have all that written down.

Great.

And don’t get me wrong, this is not about passing judgement on anything done by anyone, or even recreating exactly what was done. It is what it is. But it is really good to know the cylinder pressure in all 8 cylinders so you know what you have now, and going forward.

 

[threewood]

Great.

And don’t get me wrong, this is not about passing judgement on anything done by anyone, or even recreating exactly what was done. It is what it is. But it is really good to know the cylinder pressure in all 8 cylinders so you know what you have now, and going forward.

I got 150psi across the board. I did not get a reading from #2 as I can't get the hose and adapter in due to the shock tower.

 

[Dodge Bros]

What ever ET you can gain in the first 60ft it will usually almost double that gain for your 1/4 mile ET. Going from a 2.0 60ft to a 1.70 60ft can knock 6 tenths off your 1/4 mile ET, and honestly, you don’t really need more cam to get that. Drag radials, shocks, traction devices, all make a difference. It is a lot harder road to make your street car quicker by focusing on the top end power (via a bigger cam) and leaving off the line just as slow. Our 72 satellite had about the same 60 ft as the posted time slip, I think it’s quickest 60ft was a 1.98. With a 9:0 compression iron head 440, stock converter, 204/214 @.050” cam, 3.23s, and 225/75R14 street tires. The only mod was it had a back anti sway bar and no front sway bar. We have had 1.7s sixty foot times with as small as a 214/[email protected]” cam. You have a monster compared to those combos, lots of performance is untapped in your car without a cam swap. If I were in your shoes I would focus on the launch, get that sorted out. Your MPH looks like it has good potential.


What is the valve lash set too currently?

I think 1.6 rockers would be a good improvement with the current cam, especially with the extra elevation and head flow. Your current cam may improve the performance a fair amount with tighter lash. Adjusting the lash to see what the engine likes for the set up. Especially tighten the intake side. Tightening the valve lash can soften the take off and put more power at the top end. It is small enough, if you have enough converter you would likely never see any loss in ET from the intake side of the lash running tight. You would likely be more satisfied with the current cam with the lash tightened up, it would idle rougher and have some more top end.

 

[threewood]

What ever ET you can gain in the first 60ft it will usually almost double that gain for your 1/4 mile ET. Going from a 2.0 60ft to a 1.70 60ft can knock 6 tenths off your 1/4 mile ET, and honestly, you don’t really need more cam to get that. Drag radials, shocks, traction devices, all make a difference. It is a lot harder road to make your street car quicker by focusing on the top end power (via a bigger cam) and leaving off the line just as slow. Our 72 satellite had about the same 60 ft as the posted time slip, I think it’s quickest 60ft was a 1.98. With a 9:0 compression iron head 440, stock converter, 204/214 @.050” cam, 3.23s, and 225/75R14 street tires. The only mod was it had a back anti sway bar and no front sway bar. We have had 1.7s sixty foot times with as small as a 214/[email protected]” cam. You have a monster compared to those combos, lots of performance is untapped in your car without a cam swap. If I were in your shoes I would focus on the launch, get that sorted out. Your MPH looks like it has good potential.


What is the valve lash set too currently?

I think 1.6 rockers would be a good improvement with the current cam, especially with the extra elevation and head flow. Your current cam may improve the performance a fair amount with tighter lash. Adjusting the lash to see what the engine likes for the set up. Especially tighten the intake side. Tightening the valve lash can soften the take off and put more power at the top end. It is small enough, if you have enough converter you would likely never see any loss in ET from the intake side of the lash running tight. You would likely be more satisfied with the current cam with the lash tightened up, it would idle rougher and have some more top end.

The lash is .006" and .008" cold.

1.6 ratio rockers would be interesting to try but the Hughes set is $900 so I'll wait on that.

 

[BSB67]

I went back and re-read this thread.

My opinion stays the same. Simply more on track seat time. Track tune.

I kinda got confused. Did you have the M/T ET streets on at the track? If you have M/T ET streets, you should be able to go at least 1.85 sec. 60'. My tub of lard will go 1.85, stock converter and 3.23s. with P255 M/T ETs. You pull down a 1.85 and the 13.15 pass turns into at least a 12.85. Just try different techniques until something works for your car.

Play around with shift points. It matters a lot on my car.

For track tuning, Fuel, valve timing, ignition. With the exception of one car, I have not made large gains messing with timing. Your's could be different. Make sure all of your timing is in at launch/shift recovery rpm.

I don't know anything about fuel injection. What I do know is that fuel it matters. Keep going richer until it slows down, then go leaner until it slows down. Don't believe for a minute that any text book recommended A/F ratio is right. I also found meaningful power in carb spacer testing, but with a carb.

Do the same thing with lash. You can go +/- 0.006' either side of the manufacturers recommendation. Maybe in your case, start by going tighter in 0.003" increments and see what happens. If it slows down, or doesn't go quicker, go the other way.

Don't make any tuning changes until you get the car running consistantly. You cannot learn anything with certainty regarding tuning changes if the car is not consistent.

Good luck. I think you car has a 12.65 in it.

 

[BSB67]

The lash is .006" and .008" cold.

Wow.

 

[threewood]

I went back and re-read this thread.

My opinion stays the same. Simply more on track seat time. Track tune.

I kinda got confused. Did you have the M/T ET streets on at the track? If you have M/T ET streets, you should be able to go at least 1.85 sec. 60'. My tub of lard will go 1.85, stock converter and 3.23s. with P255 M/T ETs. You pull down a 1.85 and the 13.15 pass turns into at least a 12.85. Just try different techniques until something works for your car.

Play around with shift points. It matters a lot on my car.

For track tuning, Fuel, valve timing, ignition. With the exception of one car, I have not made large gains messing with timing. Your's could be different. Make sure all of your timing is in at launch/shift recovery rpm.

I don't know anything about fuel injection. What I do know is that fuel it matters. Keep going richer until it slows down, then go leaner until it slows down. Don't believe for a minute that any text book recommended A/F ratio is right. I also found meaningful power in carb spacer testing, but with a carb.

Do the same thing with lash. You can go +/- 0.006' either side of the manufacturers recommendation. Maybe in your case, start by going tighter in 0.003" increments and see what happens. If it slows down, or doesn't go quicker, go the other way.

Don't make any tuning changes until you get the car running consistantly. You cannot learn anything with certainty regarding tuning changes if the car is not consistent.

Good luck. I think you car has a 12.65 in it.

My runs were on the MT ET tires. A couple of my runs were bad because the tires broke traction off the line. Which is why I was feathering off the line. I need to do some trial and error to see what works to hook. And I let it auto shift. I suppose I can manually shift it to see if there is a difference.

 

[threewood]

3" exhaust going in today and tomorrow. Dynomax Ultra Flow straight through mufflers. Same system that was on the car, only 3" vs. 2.5"

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Looks like a nice exhaust upgrade! Cool car.

Got a tach? Didn't sound like it was running many rpms when it shifted on its own. Always seemed like a couple hundred rpm above peak power works best manual shifting. At least if it's still pulling. Do you have a line lock to warm up the tires?

 

[threewood]

Looks like a nice exhaust upgrade! Cool car.

Got a tach? Didn't sound like it was running many rpms when it shifted on its own. Always seemed like a couple hundred rpm above peak power works best manual shifting. At least if it's still pulling. Do you have a line lock to warm up the tires?

I have a tach. Can't say I paid attention to it on the 1-2 shift but it was early. The 2-3 was around 5700. It has a Cope auto shift valve body. I had a 5800rpm governor in it but had issues with the upshift in manual. Found out it wasn't compatible with the valve body. No line lock.