Non computer controlled RWD with best gas mileage ? Car and truck

[Don Frelier]

I'm just so sick of seeing things about modern cars that only last a few years, and then end up with problems that cost $$$$. And it's not just one Brand..it's almost all of them. You know things are bad when dealerships have engines in parts rooms. Because they need to install them every week. Old cars you pick the brand, yeah they had there problems. But they were not major failures. You may not have gotten 28 + MPG. , but at least the mechanics for the most part was relieable. The money you save in fuel mileage looks good / and is good. But when major systems componets let you down, and you may still be paying for the vehicle. The manufacture has let you down, and the are not vehicles you can trust ( ford, chevy,KIA, Chrysler.............and the list goes on. Just my rant. I worked at a Chrysler dealership late 70s-early 80's. FWD years and nearing the end of RWD. Even after that when computers were becoming more widely used. The mechanics was still for the most part good.....not any more.

I've had about 6 Chrysler vehicles from the year 2000. A couple mini vans, Intrepid, Sebring, 300M's etc...
They were all extremely reliable and have really long spark plug replacement intervals.

 

[Runcharger]

I had good luck with 5.2 magnums for fuel mileage too. Perhaps a TQ and a set of headers on a 5.2 would net a fuel efficient, non computer controlled package.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

My 2000 Saturn ION averaged 40 miles per Imperial gallon.
All numbers are Imperial gallons. My 1990 Isuzu pickup did 30, my 74? Dodge slant six did 20, my 37 Ford hearse 312 T Bird engine did 10. The Tukvan 318 does 13 to 14. Weight at 6800 pounds kills the fuel economy.
My fuel injected 007 Chev pickup is best, but i do not bother to do the calculations. It goes down the road at 1150 to 1500 revs. My 007 SV1000 Suzuki idles at those revs.

 

[#41]

I'm just so sick of seeing things about modern cars that only last a few years, and then end up with problems that cost $$$$. And it's not just one Brand..it's almost all of them. You know things are bad when dealerships have engines in parts rooms. Because they need to install them every week. Old cars you pick the brand, yeah they had there problems. But they were not major failures. You may not have gotten 28 + MPG. , but at least the mechanics for the most part was relieable. The money you save in fuel mileage looks good / and is good. But when major systems componets let you down, and you may still be paying for the vehicle. The manufacture has let you down, and the are not vehicles you can trust ( ford, chevy,KIA, Chrysler.............and the list goes on.) Just my rant. I worked at a Chrysler dealership late 70s-early 80's. FWD years and nearing the end of RWD. Even after that when computers were becoming more widely used. The mechanics was still for the most part good.....not any more.

I have been there: When I returned my lemon Ram to the dealer a decade ago (after a long drawn-out process), I was DONE with new vehicles. I ended up buying TWO 70's 3/4T Chevy truck to daily drive. I figured between the two of them at least one would be up and running at any time, and I could fix anything that went wrong with either of them. That went on for a couple years until I switched to a motorcycle for a daily.

But alas, those days are now past as I have grown accustomed to the comfort of my spouse's newer car, and now have a newer Ram again. Power, safety, comfort, etc.... but the oil change reminder won't shut off any more, the TPS system is a constant headache, and I have two recalls that need to be taken care of. I have nobody to blame but me for starting this ridiculous journey all over again.

 

[Billccm]

I confess I suffer from MDS (Module Derangement Syndrome). After suffering for over a year (and embarrassed to say $4,000 in module replacements) trying to fix my 2001 Impala, I now believe a module failure diagnosis is the death sentence for a automobile.

I will give away any car I own when I hear "we think it needs a module".

Having said that I'm convinced the highest reliability, lowest ownership cost, is ye ol'Grand Marquis. I'm on Grand Marquis number 4 and the last three that I owned made to to the 200k milestone with no major repairs.

 

[YY1]

I'd take a 318 833 OD Duster with 2.94 gears (and AC).

Almost as good MPG as a 225 and WAY more power.

 

[YY1]

I've had about 6 Chrysler vehicles from the year 2000. A couple mini vans, Intrepid, Sebring, 300M's etc...
They were all extremely reliable and have really long spark plug replacement intervals.

My 2000 Dakota R/T has been the least troublesome, most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.
It's also one of the easiest to work on.
They do have their idiosyncrasies, though.

I believe they may be in the center of the "sweet spot" between not enough computer management to help with wear and efficiency and way too much.

The electronics have been very reliable and those that have been problematic have been easy to locate and replace.

That truck held the record MPG at DakotaRTdot com at 14.2 average over 5 weeks of work commuting. No one else could get out of the 13's.

If it were a 5.2 with 3.55 gears instead f a 5.9 with 3.92's.....
I understand 3.19 gears were available as well.

 

[68BabyBlue]

I would like to see the 440 that got 30mpg out of curiosity. I was usually doing good to get 10mpg out of my stock 64 383 Sport Fury (an intermediate). I don’t think my current 440 GTX is any better although I’m a lot calmer driver now.

I got 20 mpg out of my first GTX when I drove it 600 miles to Myrtle Beach on my honeymoon in 1977, back in the 55 mph days. That engine ran extremely lean, tail pipes burned white on the interior. Baby Blue would do 16 mpg if I stayed out of it, but my buddy Bob had tuned the daylights out of it before he sold it to me in 1983. All my others have pulled around 11-12. I don't think modern day gas helps, plus air conditioning in two of them.

 

[68BabyBlue]

Having said that I'm convinced the highest reliability, lowest ownership cost, is ye ol'Grand Marquis. I'm on Grand Marquis number 4 and the last three that I owned made to to the 200k milestone with no major repairs.

One of my trucking buddies, who is a hard core Ford guy swears by them. He paid $3200 for his current one, spent $200 to fix the climate control assembly, now it drives like a new car.

 

[YY1]

One "secret" to replacing Mopar "modules" is to use only OEM Mopar parts.

 

[WileE]

One of my trucking buddies, who is a hard core Ford guy swears by them. He paid $3200 for his current one, spent $200 to fix the climate control assembly, now it drives like a new car.

The Panther platform is one of the best vehicles of its era. It is a proven, reliable, enduring machine. Some may argue it's been the best design across its 30+ years in existence in automotive history.

 

[AR67GTX]

My 66 Charger in stock form with a 3:23 gear could get 17mpg but that was driving it with an eggshell under my foot.
Now it will get 14.5 driving to Carlisle mostly 65-70 mph.

We had a 66 Newport 383-2 when I was a kid that could get 18 mpg towing a small aluminum boat.

Yeah, at 18 my driving style would never have been characterized as eggshells under my feet.

 

[rustytoolss]

I guess, that not ALL modern vechicle are crap...but it sure seems like most everything in the last 10 years or so, should have not been sold to the buying public, Fuel injection was a good thing. But they could not leave it at that. I know EPA rules have a lot to do with the problens. But when a guy can not change a stereo without pissing off the computer something is wrong. I think that I saw a video about changing wiper blades, and the car had to be sent to dealer to reflash the compter...WIPER BLADES !!!!!

 

[OneWheelPeel]

I confess I suffer from MDS (Module Derangement Syndrome). After suffering for over a year (and embarrassed to say $4,000 in module replacements) trying to fix my 2001 Impala, I now believe a module failure diagnosis is the death sentence for a automobile.

I will give away any car I own when I hear "we think it needs a module".

Having said that I'm convinced the highest reliability, lowest ownership cost, is ye ol'Grand Marquis. I'm on Grand Marquis number 4 and the last three that I owned made to to the 200k milestone with no major repairs.

One of my trucking buddies, who is a hard core Ford guy swears by them. He paid $3200 for his current one, spent $200 to fix the climate control assembly, now it drives like a new car.

The Panther platform is one of the best vehicles of its era. It is a proven, reliable, enduring machine. Some may argue it's been the best design across its 30+ years in existence in automotive history.

I bought a 2000 Crown Vic with almost 200k miles on it in 2017 for a couple thousand , drove it around 150 miles a day for about a year then got something nicer, but most importantly kept the Vic. When the newer cars let me down or I sell them I know the Vic is there. A year or so ago I had a rebuilt trans put in (lived with it slipping a bit for a year or so) and had the front suspension done, spent wayyyyy more that the blue book value to do that, but I would spend more to replace it with one that I trust.
They are also decently modable, I have bilstein shocks, trimmed cops springs and a modern wheel package and it’s pretty fun on turns.

 

[terrywalker]

The best I ever got on my 71 Challenger 340 w/ 4speed and 3.23 rear was 22mpg keeping my foot out of it and just cruising. I had a 72 Challenger slant 6 manual trans get about 23 mpg. My 2015 Challenger R/T Shaker 5.7 auto 8 speed trans with MDS gets about 28 mpg on trips and around 20 in town keeping my foot out of it. It's been reliable but scared the crap out of me one time. I was going up a hill on the interstate as was passing a semi truck and accelerating. All of a sudden, the gas pedal went all the way to the floor and stayed there. That Hemi was accelerating fast with all kinds of codes coming up on the dash. I couldn't press the start button to shut it off. Couldn't get it in Neutral. I finally realized the cruise control was on and started hitting the Minus(-) on the cruise control pad. I got it all the way down to 30 mph and then I braked it to a stop and shut it off. About 5 minutes later, I heard a loud pop and the gas pedal came back up. The Dodge dealer never did find out what went wrong. I was glad I was by myself driving it and not my wife. Anyways, here a couple of photos of the dash showing the trip gas mileage. It has around 80,000 miles on it now with no problems.
Terry W.

 

[Kern Dog]

Best fuel mileage I personally experienced was my 68 Formula S, 4 speed with a 71 340, TQ and headers. That one got 25MPH

That is not very fast. A slant six with three plug wires missing can do 25 mph.

 

[451Mopar]

The old cars were easy to work on, but you did have to work on them more often.
All the changes to fuel and oil have made owning an old car more difficult unless you either upgrade parts, like exhaust valve seats and maybe roller cams, or use high ZDDP oil and leaded fuel, or additives to the oil and fuel.
High gearing (low numerical axle ratios like under 3:1) help fuel mileage when limited with a 1:1 final transmission ratio. Overdrive transmissions are a good upgrade, but usually not an easy or cheap upgrade.

 

[BMosely]

Put me down in the Grand Marquis crowd. ‘03 to ‘11 is the same platform and final year. Crown Vic’s the same but most of them are well beat up and have a tighter spring package which rides harder. Put the heavy front and rear sway bars on, ceramic brakes with vented rotors, Marty tune, P71 air box, performance shocks and a 3.73 posi rear end and you have a runner. It is my daily and gets 22 mpg on the interstate. 180k so far and I had to replace the electric fan beyond maintenance. I think the computer on it still has vacuum tubes so that is about the least electronics to be found on a modern car.

 

[YY1]

I bought a 2000 Crown Vic with almost 200k miles on it in 2017 for a couple thousand , drove it around 150 miles a day for about a year then got something nicer, but most importantly kept the Vic. When the newer cars let me down or I sell them I know the Vic is there. A year or so ago I had a rebuilt trans put in (lived with it slipping a bit for a year or so) and had the front suspension done, spent wayyyyy more that the blue book value to do that, but I would spend more to replace it with one that I trust.
They are also decently modable, I have bilstein shocks, trimmed cops springs and a modern wheel package and it’s pretty fun on turns.

That's one of the reasons I can't sell my Dakota.
One is "cause it's nice to have a truck if you need one".
The other is- "it's super dependable and easy to work on".
I've put one ball joint on it and one sealed hub bearing suspension wise.
Electronic wise- it's gone through a TPS sensor, and two IAC solenoids.
The worst thing about Dakotas is the cooling system.
Three radiators, five water pumps, bypassed the heater core and 5 or 6 belt idler pulleys.
Good thing those things are relatively easy to do.
If that's the worst it's got, I can live with that.
I must have the best trans ever put in one, because it's never failed and never been opened.
The service manual says (and I just about quote)- "If it doesn't have a problem, don't F with it...at all".
It does take the trans a few miles to warm up and upshift properly.
I have to let off the gas to let it shift the first 3-4 miles.
I ain't opening it for that. 177,500 miles.

I've actually had pretty good luck with "newer" cars.

Our 2003 P/T Cruiser gave us about 140,000 after we bought it 2 years old with 45,000 on it.
2.4 5 speed manual. 24-27 MPG.
I think it blew a head gasket.
Worst maintenance was a $900 timing belt that I wasn't going to do myself, at 100,000.

My 2015 Renegade is still going strong at 124,000.
1.4T 6 speed manual. 34.6 MPG.
Recently did the timing belt on that one myself for about $100.
Just did the trans torque bracket for $35.
Otherwise, worst issue so far- warning light says the license light is out but it isn't.

My wife's 2004 hyundai elentra gave us (and our boy) about 160,000 before the motor mounts, struts and other suspension parts started going.
2.0 auto. 28 MPG.
Her current 2020 kona hasn't had any issues.
Gen II 2.0 auto. 34.6 average MPG, but can get 42 average on long trips.

 

[rustytoolss]

Not anything good said about car built in the last 10 years. All of thier major systems are just poorly made. Most times when you are going to buy a used car. The natual idea is to purchase something newer, better. But in this day and age , that is no longer true. IMO.