Odd Carb Issue

[Doorkicker]

Basic info. to start....
Fuel pressure is 6 lbs
Engine 440, new with about 100 miles
The carb is a new Brawler
The float bowl levels are good...until this issue happens and then the primary bowl is low (bottom of the window)

Once the engine is warm and after driving it for 10+ minutes, the idle goes up and starts to run poorly.

I opened the hood and removed the air cleaner and was checking the carb and saw droplets of gas flying up out of the primary vent tube and into the barrels. It wasn't flooding as if the bowl was over filled or the valve was sticking. The gas was actually drop by drop coming out of the tube and going up about 2-3 inches and then gets sucked in the carb. Kinda weird.

I tapped the check valve thinking it might be stuck, but no change.

I got a brawler for a different car and it ran great out of the box. Even have an AFR gauge for tuning it. It went so well I figured I'd try one on this motor and I think something is up with this one.

 

[Dusty Dude]

Basic info. to start....
Fuel pressure is 6 lbs
Engine 440, new with about 100 miles
The carb is a new Brawler
The float bowl levels are good...until this issue happens and then the primary bowl is low (bottom of the window)

Once the engine is warm and after driving it for 10+ minutes, the idle goes up and starts to run poorly.

I opened the hood and removed the air cleaner and was checking the carb and saw droplets of gas flying up out of the primary vent tube and into the barrels. It wasn't flooding as if the bowl was over filled or the valve was sticking. The gas was actually drop by drop coming out of the tube and going up about 2-3 inches and then gets sucked in the carb. Kinda weird.

I tapped the check valve thinking it might be stuck, but no change.

I got a brawler for a different car and it ran great out of the box. Even have an AFR gauge for tuning it. It went so well I figured I'd try one on this motor and I think something is up with this one.

View attachment 1855955

You might try installing a phenolic heat separation spacer between the carb and manifold to negate fuel percolation.

 

[Sinitro]

U have a Chinese Holley Brawler fake clone..
Sold on E-Bay, Walmart, Amazon
It is a counterfeit...
Besides being cheap, it has many, many internal shortcomings.
Check YouTube, there are multiple negative reviews...
Nothing but problems...

Just my $0.02...

 

[Geoff 2]

It is flooding. Check needle & seats for trash/leakage & make sure you have a filter in the line.

 

[Doorkicker]

You might try installing a phenolic heat separation spacer between the carb and manifold to negate fuel percolation.

You think I have a fuel boil issue? I didn't really consider... only because the engine temp is about 185-190, but you think that can still be an issue?

 

[Doorkicker]

U have a Chinese Holley Brawler fake clone..
Sold on E-Bay, Walmart, Amazon
It is a counterfeit...
Besides being cheap, it has many, many internal shortcomings.
Check YouTube, there are multiple negative reviews...
Nothing but problems...

Just my $0.02...

I purchased from Summit.

 

[AR67GTX]

Do the vents have baffles installed in the fuel bowls? About the only way fuel can normally get up and out of the vents is flooding, except maybe some phenomenon where fuel agitation from engine vibration is bouncing fuel droplets out the bowl vent and into the vertical risers.

 

[Doorkicker]

Do the vents have baffles installed in the fuel bowls? About the only way fuel can normally get up and out of the vents is flooding, except maybe some phenomenon where fuel agitation from engine vibration is bouncing fuel droplets out the bowl vent and into the vertical risers.

That's a great question. As soon as the workday is done, I'm going to pull the carb and start checking. That'll be the first thing I look for. At the moment, I've done very little to the carb out of the box (still breaking in the engine)... so it'll be good to pull it apart and check.

 

[Dusty Dude]

You think I have a fuel boil issue? I didn't really consider... only because the engine temp is about 185-190, but you think that can still be an issue?

You think I have a fuel boil issue? I didn't really consider... only because the engine temp is about 185-190, but you think that can still be an issue?

Today’s gas will begin to boil at around 100 degrees so yes I would pretty much bet on it.

 

[Doorkicker]

Just in case anyone is interested, here is what I found when I pulled apart the brand-new Brawler carb I purchased from Summit.

Both of the float bowl gaskets we're split length wise across the top and the vent extension in the primary was cracked. The gaskets for the block we're also not in great shape, one has a rip in it that could only be done before it was installed. Apparently, whoever assembled the carb completely jacked it up. I believe this explains the fuel spitting out the vent tube at high idle.

Second finding was that the shaft-mounted return spring for the secondaries was not installed correctly, in that there was no spring pressure on the shaft - it was loose. When I operated the carb the secondaries would stay open about 15-20% (the primaries only "pull" it back so much, and where they stopped the secondaries stopped). Apparently, this was also heat sensitive because the secondaries stuck open after I pulled the carb, but seemed to not stick as badly after sitting on the bench. Kinda makes sense when you think about it. I wrapped the spring on the shaft correctly (matching the other Brawler I have that works), which seemed to correct the high idle issue.

Overall, this is only my second brawler. The first one runs great and came tuned very well (sitting on top of a 400 in my 67' Coronet 440). However, now I'm concerned about that one because it's not perfect and the little things I ignored before could be indications of similar assembly issues.

Anyway, I have a few more things I'm going to look at and test.

 

[WileE]

Never had ANY experience with a "Brawler" carb, but if that's ^^ any indication, I'd return that piece of junk. Where are they manufactured/assembled ?

 

[AR67GTX]

Maybe it is a Chinese knock off. Just how close in appearance are the Chinese Holley knock offs compared to the originals? I hear they are all over EBay.

 

[icetech]

Never had ANY experience with a "Brawler" carb, but if that's ^^ any indication, I'd return that piece of junk. Where are they manufactured/assembled ?

"Brawler carburetors are precision machined and hand-assembled by craftsmen in the USA." - from holleys webpage.

Which as you know means quality... bahahahah

 

[WileE]

"Brawler carburetors are precision machined and hand-assembled by craftsmen in the USA." - from holleys webpage.

Which as you know means quality... bahahahah

 

[Doorkicker]

Never had ANY experience with a "Brawler" carb, but if that's ^^ any indication, I'd return that piece of junk. Where are they manufactured/assembled ?

Honestly, I'm thinking the same. So, according to my understanding, some guys left Holley, started QFT and then sold the company to Holley about a decade later... and Holley ran with the brand. Now, according to Holley's web site, the Brawlers are made and assembled in the USA.

My gut says, "throw them back in box and return them for a real Holley." But I'm a gluten for punishment, so I'm going to work the problem. Nevertheless, I very much doubt I'll ever buy one again. Which is disapointing becasue they seem like a good, inexpensive option. They have much of the tuning features you need/want on a basic carb. It's not a f'ing XP, but it has some good features. Of course, all that means squat if it's not made or assembled well.

 

[icetech]

Honestly, I'm thinking the same. So, according to my understanding, some guys left Holley, started QFT and then sold the company to Holley about a decade later... and Holley ran with the brand. Now, according to Holley's web site, the Brawlers are made and assembled in the USA.

My gut says, "throw them back in box and return them for a real Holley." But I'm a gluten for punishment, so I'm going to work the problem. Nevertheless, I very much doubt I'll ever buy one again. Which is disapointing becasue they seem like a good, inexpensive option. They have much of the tuning features you need/want on a basic carb. It's not a f'ing XP, but it has some good features. Of course, all that means squat if it's not made or assembled well.

Every company has bad parts leave the shop... if you like the carb i would exchange it for another one (if it's still in return range) and see if it's fine.. But i get how you feel.. my ordeal with edelbrock has me never wanting to buy another one of their parts again..

 

[Sinitro]

Honestly, I'm thinking the same. So, according to my understanding, some guys left Holley, started QFT and then sold the company to Holley about a decade later... and Holley ran with the brand. Now, according to Holley's web site, the Brawlers are made and assembled in the USA.

My gut says, "throw them back in box and return them for a real Holley." But I'm a gluten for punishment, so I'm going to work the problem. Nevertheless, I very much doubt I'll ever buy one again. Which is disapointing becasue they seem like a good, inexpensive option. They have much of the tuning features you need/want on a basic carb. It's not a f'ing XP, but it has some good features. Of course, all that means squat if it's not made or assembled well.

Holley and QFT makes some awesome carburators but now..
The Chinese guys are cranking out multiple fake clones that are junko.
They are being sold all over the internet and some are even using the Holley
and/or QFT part number and/or labeled Brawler.. Their internal design parts is crap and
the hardware may even be metric including the jets...

Just my $0.02...

 

[Coelacanth]

I'm a gluten for punishment

I'm gonna steal that quote, I hope you don't mind. Next time I hear somebody complain that something isn't gluten-free, I'll say they must be a gluten for punishment.

 

[Geoff 2]

Would the punishment be for not learning to spell...